ALL TIME....THE HEART BREAK KID SHAWN MICHAELS...or the MACHO MAN RANDY SAVAGE...REAL simple

Hickenbottom vs. Poffo

  • SHAWN MICHAELS

    Votes: 64 37.6%
  • RANDY SAVAGE

    Votes: 98 57.6%
  • osu sucks

    Votes: 8 4.7%

  • Total voters
    170

Liquid

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This thread has developed into stupidity
You deserve all the props in the world for turning this thread for what it is.

LOL @ questioning how relevant the nWo was back in its prime when just a few years ago the first thing that went into people's mind when LeBron joined Miami was bash at the beach in 1996. Not some stupid immature "suck it" pose DX RAN with, didn't invent.
 

GoddamnyamanProf

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So lemme ask you this. In their ABSOLUTE primes, with everything at stake, for all the marbles, one match only.

Who wins. Who goes over.

Warrior or Shawn.
Im glad you said this because this is actually the basis of our disagreement.

When that match is over, regardless of result, I'll be discussing how Michaels was able to carry Warrior with his talent and how entertaining of a match they were able or unable to put together.

Meanwhile you'll be talking about a kayfabe win and loss like some clueless hillbilly mark.
 

Wacky D

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Mach was losing to vanilla midgets like Steamboat

At least HBGOAT lost to good wrestlers

:usure:

steamboat is better than hbk.

I think he is though. Michaels was better at almost everything.

Warrior just sucked in the ring man, I don't know what else to tell you. I cannot for the life of me remember a classic match outside of that Hogan match @ WM6.

Warrior is a legend for the short run
HBK is an ICON for the longevity and bringing it year after year and still keeping people's interest.


the hogan match isnt even warrior's best.

its the other way around actually. warrior is an icon. hbk is a legend with a machine endlessly trying to pass him off as an icon.
 
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Liquid

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:usure:

steamboat is better than hbk too.




the hogan match isnt even warrior's best.

its the other way around actually. warrior is an icon. hbk is a legend with a machine endlessly trying to pass him off as an icon.
I liked his match with Savage more @ WM7 personally, but the Hogan match is what stands out to most.
 
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Im glad you said this because this is actually the basis of our disagreement.

When that match is over, regardless of result, I'll be discussing how Michaels was able to carry Warrior with his talent and how entertaining of a match they were able or unable to put together.

Meanwhile you'll be talking about a kayfabe win and loss like some clueless hillbilly mark.

I take no shame in being a mark. In fact marks have more fun.

I will always be a mark first, smark second.

When I watch a movie or a TV show the things that most draw me in are the characters and the story. Same with wrestling. It is a show after all.

So feel free to harp on the technical achievements behind the scenes, that is your perogotive. Personally I would prefer to just enjoy the show.

And the result of the match is very important, because your value as a box office draw determines how strongly you are booked. That's why hogan was unbeatable for damn near 6-7 years and why austin was considered the "toughest SOB".

I don't know why you keep insisting that it doesn't matter. Why else wouldn't shawn have a clean win over any of the top, top legends? Simple, he wasn't on their level.
 

Art Barr

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honestly i think it could go either way.

anyone saying it isn't close is crazy.

they're on the same tier IMO.


michaels never performed on savage's level, ever.
also,...people are giving michaels credit for workrate.
when, his workrate was dated.
if judged by workrate of similar workers almost a decade later.
or during michaels time when he was coming up or a me.
only reason michaels is known like that is because he was in the wwf.
which was behind in portraying diverse workrate from more advanced workers.

case in point,...pillman was a much better performer, and healthy in the nwa.

while, michaels was a struggling in the awa with a fake rock n roll express gimmick and still was not over.
yet, the rock n roll express gimmick was one of the most over gimmicks in the history of wrasslin.

when, michaels finally caught wind.
it was in the wwf.
which was behind other promotions like the nwa and wcw by a decade workrate wise.
evident by pillman was in the wwf.
after he was hobbled and had to repackage himself.
far and away from the workrate stampede guy he was earlier in his nwa days.

not to mention, any other worker in the nwa or wcw.
who was far and away a better performer than michaels.

pillman was putting on five star classic with jushin, already.
while michaels was nowhere near that level of worker at that time.

as a matter of fact,..
i don't think i could ever say michaels was ever on jushin's level.
let alone guys like eddy.
not to mention, a guy like the real:


ART BARR
 

The G.O.D II

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You deserve all the props in the world for turning this thread for what it is.

LOL @ questioning how relevant the nWo was back in its prime when just a few years ago the first thing that went into people's mind when LeBron joined Miami was bash at the beach in 1996. Not some stupid immature "suck it" pose DX RAN with, didn't invent.

You got mislead by an idiot. Anyone with a brain understand the context of what I said.
 

Art Barr

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Mach was losing to vanilla midgets like Steamboat

At least HBGOAT lost to good wrestlers


there was no wrassler in the clique or even all of wrasslin.
in general terms, you could say is technically better than steamboat as a performer, all time.

real talk,...
workrate wise for the major draw.
let alone to be considered the GOAT.
that road all is derived on whether or not steamboat is on your resume.

the reason why scsa and flair have lone claim to the title of the goat, domestically
is they have that steamboat pedigree classic matches and feuds under their belts.
just as part of the rubrick, and litmus test of what the goat is.
there are distinct points.
where you can say flair or austin were finally better than steamboat.
at no point in history ,..can i say hbk was EVER better than steamboat.

hbk, was never really that good.
it is more clique propaganda as to why hbk is erroneously rated.
it is not really based on applying any metrics.
or timeline to michaels resume or pedigree.
of, which it was hordes of grappler better with similar skills in pedigree/workrate/mic skills/moveset.
or, whom had a higher skillsets/pedigree/moveset/workrate/mic skills.

michaels's legacy is all i am buds with the guy who owns the ocmpany.
it has nuffin to do with him being really a great worker.
macho on the other hand, is the guy who originally took over hulkamania.

plus, has the template GOAT match,...
that created one of the criterias for the modern domestic five star match as a science.

michaels has no claim to that title.
nor, does he have a definitive five star match.
that qualifies or changes the modern five sar match review as a science, like macho had with steamboat.
that predate and created the criteria.
upon, which michaels would be given high marks for a domestic match.
michaels never moved the needle for that template.
whereas, macho and steamboat created.
or in steamboats case,..he wrote and added an addendum in how to create that match in two realms.
one, in the scripted real with macho.
the other in the called on the fly real, with flair on numerous occassions, in two to three instances and runs.
of which includes a run of five satr elongating rubrick matches in a row.,
that included two of the greatest matches top five televised matches of all time.
three, of which steamboat is in the principal in three of the top five televised matches all time.
plus, the number of house shows classics him and flair added onto.
while working in their second incarnation of five star programs domestically.
which came post a previous flair versus steamboat five star match program.
that predated the savage/macho program in i wanna say 81, in a foreign and domestic run.
not sure of hte year this series of matches took place.
yet, i have the footage of this match on vhs.
plus, this is the original match.
where flair gave the prophetic idea that steamboat was a future goat candidate worker and world champion.


art barr
 

Wacky D

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HBK and it aint even close tbh. more charisma, better matches, better promos, more swag, much better twilight years

its just all u :flabbynsick: 70s and 80s babies with nostalgia glasses


this doesnt even make sense.

if anything, the 70s and 80s babies arent the ones wearing nostalgia glasses. instead, theyre the ones that likely caught everything in real-time and have a better perspective.

People actin like warrior got some undeserved monster push out of nowhere, as if he didn't prove himself for 2 years in the midcard and outpop every face on the card outside of hogan.

You could argue warrior was just as over during his IC title reign than bret and shawn were doing their WORLD title reigns.


shhiieeett.

warrior started getting bigger pops than hogan too.

hence, the mania 6 victory.:banderas:

Michaels vs Warrior is a tough one for me. I think in the case of the Warrior his longevity is a gift and a curse.

He couldn't keep that run going forever...he just didn't have great skills out there. He wasn't that great on the mic, just spitting nonsense...and he sucked in the ring. He was on top of the world when he was getting his push though and Hogan HAD to lose to him...that's how popular Warrior was at his peak.

Warrior = Better Peak
Michaels = Unquestionably the better career and impact overall IMO


these are just what-ifs and assumptions.

and its not like the wwf was ever a workrate promotion.

judging by the chit that the wwf was shoveling for the most part thru the following 3 1/2 years, i dont see why the warrior wouldnt have been able to continue doing what he was doing. and he wouldve gotten even better at it by default..........then he came back after those years and jumped str8 into forefront again like it was nothing.

In wrestling circles no. To the casual mainstream who tuned in droves each week, yes


WAY MORE PEOPLE tuned in to watch the nwo than raw.

and i say raw and not DX because DX wasnt even the main attraction on raw at any point ever.

hell, the only reason the wwf even survived thru that period is because of their brand loyalty stanleys.


My point is Bret and Hart were bigger stars when you account all the key factors and the totality of their careers. Do you deny that? Or do you sill want to cling unto one short year of Warrior?

:what:

it doesnt work like that man.

you cant total up star-power & star status.

either youre a bigger star or youre not.
 
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look to all the people involved in the warrior/hbk debate, lemme just ask this cause it makes it a lot simpler.

Do you want the candle that burned brighter or the one that burned longer?

That's basically the crux of this entire debate. There is no wrong side. It is a matter of preference.
 

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From the attire, charisma, catch phases, etc. Savage has the better legacy.












































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