ALL TIME....THE HEART BREAK KID SHAWN MICHAELS...or the MACHO MAN RANDY SAVAGE...REAL simple

[Kill Dat Noize]

What don't you understand about different time periods? Post some house show number from Warrior and compare before and after. He didn't quit he was fired twice(after SS and after no showing before Surv ser 92) He quit in 96.

it was still under his own accord. he gave vince an ultimatum. he didn't "fizzle out" and fade away.

i don't know where to find house show numbers. but i'm sure warrior outdrew bret and shawn there as well.

 

[The G.O.D II]

it was still under his own accord. he gave vince an ultimatum. he didn't "fizzle out" and fade away.

i don't know where to find house show numbers. but i'm sure warrior outdrew bret and shawn there as well.

Irrational fan boy drivel. Done.

 

[KEEPITTRILLA]

HBK and it aint even close tbh. more charisma, better matches, better promos, more swag, much better twilight years

its just all u 70s and 80s babies with nostalgia glasses

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

Irrational fan boy drivel. Done.

lol go find them then and post them.

if i'm wrong, i'm wrong.

provide the house show numbers under warrior's reign as champion and then stack them up next to bret and shawn's.

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

show you what

Greatest wrestler lists from publications or otherwise credible sources that have Ultimate Warrior in the top 10.

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

Greatest wrestler lists from publications or otherwise credible sources that have Ultimate Warrior in the top 10.

i'm sure some shoot mag probly has steamboat or something in the top 10. it got nothing to do with that. everyone has their own unique perspective as to what constitutes a great wrestler.

so....

1. i'm not sure what exactly constitutes as a "credible" source for something that is largely opinion based.

and

2. why do you feel the need to cite the opinions of others as opposed to stating your own?

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

i'm sure some shoot mag probly has steamboat or something in the top 10. it got nothing to do with that. everyone has their own unique perspective as to what constitutes a great wrestler.

so....

1. i'm not sure what exactly constitutes as a "credible" source for something that is largely opinion based.

and

2. why do you feel the need to cite the opinions of others as opposed to stating your own?

Because now you're contradicting yourself, which was my point to begin with. Again, your original statement that I responded to:

so it's not about personal opinion. personally i think scott hall is one of the best to ever do it but honestly he wouldn't crack an all time top10.

You speak as if personal opinion and an objective all time top 10 list are two seperate things...which is fine, but just know that Ultimate Warrior isnt on that list either way for most. And you cant find me anything that proves otherwise. Know why? Because the vast majority of wrestling fans that discuss these types of things arent obtuse enough to believe some silly shyt like "kayfabe and real life are the same thing."

 

[The G.O.D II]

lol go find them then and post them.

if i'm wrong, i'm wrong.

provide the house show numbers under warrior's reign as champion and then stack them up next to bret and shawn's.

Nice try. You know business was much stronger then in 90 then in 96-97. But when the games are off I will be happy to compare Hogan, Savage, and Warrior numbers.

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

You speak as if personal opinion and an objective all time top 10 list are two seperate things...which is fine, but just know that Ultimate Warrior isnt on that list either way for most. And you cant find me anything that proves otherwise. Know why? Because the vast majority of wrestling fans that discuss these types of things arent obtuse enough to believe some silly shyt like "kayfabe and real life are the same thing."

give me a good reason why warrior CAN'T crack a top 10.

and remember, like you said... be OBJECTIVE about it. so leave out personal bias.

i guess being one of the 4 or 5 most over wrestlers of all time isn't a qualifier???

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

Nice try. You know business was much stronger then in 90 then in 96-97. But when the games are off I will be happy to compare Hogan, Savage, and Warrior numbers.

so what exactly was your point then?

what are you trying to prove or disprove?

yes or no was warrior a bigger star than bret and shawn.

 

[The G.O.D II]

so what exactly was your point then?

what are you trying to prove or disprove?

yes or no was warrior a bigger star than bret and shawn.

My point is Bret and Hart were bigger stars when you account all the key factors and the totality of their careers. Do you deny that? Or do you sill want to cling unto one short year of Warrior?

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

give me a good reason why warrior CAN'T crack a top 10.

and remember, like you said... be OBJECTIVE about it. so leave out personal bias.

i guess being one of the 4 or 5 most over wrestlers of all time isn't a qualifier???

Greatest isnt just most over. And even if it was, its not like Warrior was over for decades like other guys. By your criteria Jim Duggan should be one of the goats. Warrior had a very short run where they pegged him to take over for Hogan and he mostly just copied Hogan's schtick.

Most people agree that mic work and ring work are the two basic qualities that constitute a talented wrestler. For the vast majority of Warrior promos, the most complimentary thing you could say was they were so bad they were good, like a cheesy B-movie that doesnt make sense but is so over the top that its enjoyable. And in the ring, he flat out couldnt work. Couldnt wrestle his way out of a wet paper bag.

Macho, for instance, was a larger than life personality that was also an awesome wrestler and had a great understanding of the business. Warrior was an over the top character, but ultimately just a random roided guy they pushed to the the top. People that have fond memories of that period might include him somewhere in the top 50 based on nostalgia but when you go back and look and compare him to the supreme talents in the history of the business, match for match, promo for promo, theres no way you can justify putting him anywhere near the top 10.

 

[PYRRHUS 88]

if vince could just hype any old random dude to the moon than how come he couldn't hype hbk up that level???

i mean hbk had the talent right? what's his excuse?

I didn't say Vince could make just any old random dude into a mainstream star. Warrior was the right guy at the right place at the right time. Just like Vanilla Ice was the right guy, right place, right time to sell 7 million albums. Does the fact that the music industry can't repeat the trick to create another Vanilla Ice in a different era mean that we should re-evaluate his legacy and conclude that, actually, he must just have been greater than any rapper who hasn't achieve that level of mainstream success?

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

My point is Bret and Hart were bigger stars when you account all the key factors and the totality of their careers. Do you deny that? Or do you sill want to cling unto one short year of Warrior?

i know exactly what you are saying but yes i am sorry, i would still rather "cling" to warrior's short albeit godly untouchable run than shawn's longer and more plentiful one.

shawn got time on his side and more memorable moments, but to me warrior has the greater and more significant ones. and had warrior never injured his relationship with the mcmahons, i'm sure those moments would have been more celebrated over the years instead of being largely ignored and forgotten. his intercontinental run after beating honky tonk, his feud with rick rude, him beating hulk hogan, his feud and match with randy savage... these were some of the most watched and most legendary moments in the history of wrestling.

millions of people remember ultimate warrior beating hulk hogan for the title, the greatest the sport had ever seen up until that point. that first image of him eating a clean 3 count is iconic and unforgettable, as is that lasting image of warrior hoisting both titles in celebration amidst the fireworks.

shawn doesn't have THIS.

millions of people remember THIS.

i cannot tell you what most people believe shawn's single defining moments is, but i can tell you there is a solid chance that not a lot of people remember seeing it live.

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

Most people agree that mic work and ring work are the two basic qualities that constitute a talented wrestler. For the vast majority of Warrior promos, the most complimentary thing you could say was they were so bad they were good, like a cheesy B-movie that doesnt make sense but is so over the top that its enjoyable. And in the ring, he flat out couldnt work. Couldnt wrestle his way out of a wet paper bag.

warrior was the most intense promo guy the wwf had. more intense than hogan. more intense than macho. and if you don't believe me watch all of the promos leading up to the warrior/hogan match and the warrior/savage match. warrior came harder than both of them. if wrestling weren't predetermined and you had to pick based on those promos who you thought would win the match, you would be convinced that warrior was more about that life than they were.

nikka looked dead in the camera and told hogan "i am not the chosen one, i am the only one"

ether.