his late wcw tenure shouldnt be held against him. wcw was garbage near the end and thats established. macho was underused and misused as soon as he joined nWo other than DDP feud. HBK wouldnt have done so well at macho's age in wcw if he was in wcw then either. and dont tell me hbk didnt cop that elbow drop off the top from mach. if wwe had a mach (heel) vs hbk (face) wrestlemania match after wcw ala hogan vs rock...youd see as much or more favorable cheers for a heel macho than hogan got. that moment and match would have been filed and understood as macho > hbk
ALL TIME....THE HEART BREAK KID SHAWN MICHAELS...or the MACHO MAN RANDY SAVAGE...REAL simple
- Thread starter Ed MOTHEREFFING G
- Start date
GoddamnyamanProf
Countdown to Armageddon
Things to say if you want no one to ever take you seriously in wrestling discussion.
No credible Top 10 list features the Ultimate Warrior.
Capo Dei Capi
Fukk a studio thug, I'm a skinny jeans bigot
HBK, I been a stan since his Rocker days
warrior's impact in the business is greater than bret hart & shawn michaels by far.
if the wwf didnt continously force-feed bret & shawn's legacies for the past 20 years, they wouldnt be talked about half as much on here. as opposed to the warrior, who was hogan/savage/rock/austin status in the wwf, and his name still rings more bells despite him walking away early and being chitted on for nearly 2 decades.
also, bret got exposed big time in wcw.
There's the unpalatable truth that, compared to HBK in his 40's, Macho was a lumbering roided out stiff by his 40's. That's kind of his fault. HBK retained like 80% of his prime athleticism, Macho Man lost like 90% of his.
HBK in WCW at Macho's age (same age bracket he was still putting on classics in WWE) would at least have had awesome matches. The talent he could have worked with there
Savage's prime was short like leprechauns.
You guys who were young marks in the late 80's just view him through a lens of nostalgiaThere's the unpalatable truth that, compared to HBK in his 40's, Macho was a lumbering roided out stiff by his 40's. That's kind of his fault. HBK retained like 80% of his prime athleticism, Macho Man lost like 90% of his.
HBK in WCW at Macho's age (same age bracket he was still putting on classics in WWE) would at least have had awesome matches. The talent he could have worked with there
Savage's prime was short like leprechauns.
Eh you have a bit if a point there..but Im not in the age bracket you mentioned at the end. a lot of the macho i saw was him in WCW. I think he was wildly under-used and wasn't put in feuds or matches that were top notch or had potential. i think he could have put on a ton of good matches if given the chance. he was roided yea but he could still move and pretty much do what he could before. hbk vs wcw jericho in a feud woulda been crack but other than that, the smaller guys were pretty much relegated to the mid-card no matter what. i would have liked to see what types of matches he'd come up with against all the luchas..juvie and him trying to work a match together would have potential but they would prob beef and not agree on anything...him vs malenko would be 5* though...in terms of gimmick, i have confidence WCW would do something stupid with him near the end
This is false. Has nothing to do with anyone being forced on anyone In addition to being better workers and having better matches, those two are directly responsible for the buggest boom period in history. Warrior had huge, moments when he beat honky at SS 88/Hogan at WM 6, but his overall impact in the business pales in comparison to hart/Michaels. That last sentence is ridiculous on all levels. Exposed? How so?
See, we are talking about totality of careers. Not moments. We are talking about general workrate, promo skills, charisma, matches, longevity, lasting impact, etc. And Warrior is not above Michael or hart in that aspect
Warrior is more like Vanilla Ice than Biggie. Blew up briefly on some hype/gimmick shyt, didn't have the actual talent to back it up so it didn't last. I say that as someone who liked Warrior.
Putting him above HBK is like putting Vanilla Ice above Nas because he had a bigger "mainstream moment".
Mantis Toboggan M.D.
Drink wolf cola
Michael and triple h as D-X and feuding with hart laid the early seeds of the biggest period in professional wrestling history. I get goosebumps thinking about how Michaels would've fit into that era. As for who is better. We're huge savage fans. HBK says he stole the idea of a million different sets of entrance gear from savage. What sets Michaels overboard is his comeback. He broke his back in 1998 at 32, going on 33. Herniated one disc and crushed another two. He had spinal fusion surgery and was supposed to never lace his boots up again. He got back in the ring at 37 and wrestled until he was a few months short of turning 45. He wrestled a great number of his best matches in that period, even with his knees all messed up too. His comeback match in Uniondale at summerslam 2002, the elimination chamber in Madison square garden at the survivor series and the 2/3 falls match at Armageddon the next month. Him and Jericho stealing the show on maybe the most stacked mania card ever XIX. Him challenging for the title on the last raw of 2003 in San antonio. The last man standing match at the 2004 Royal rumble. The triple threat matches with h and benoit at mania 20 and backlash. The hell in a cell match at bad blood. His 5 star classic with kurt angle at wrestlemania 21. He got good matches that fall out of 50+ year old hogan and from Chris masters. He wrestled a 57 minute classic for free on raw in 2007 against Cena with the GOAT finish that you can script for it, and of course taker at mania. Lets not forget his matches in 2008 with Jericho either. he had the 2004-2010 match of the year and might very well have had the 2002 and 2003 matches of the year too. I think he did in 2002 personally. He was in 3 of the top 5. I didn't see much of savage when it happened so I can't say much regarding him, but I saw how great HBK was. He gets my vote.
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As a Savage stan, I want to go with the Macho Man. But it's tough. If we're talking peak performance, then it's Savage, yeah. Both men on their A-plus games, I'm taking the Madness. But as some have pointed out, Savage was a shell of himself in WCW. Meanwhile, HBK stayed putting out classics late in his career, he aged like a fine wine. If you take that into account, HBK is probably better. On top of that, HBK legitimately got a chance as the top face in the business. Even when Macho was the WWF champ, he stayed playing second fiddle. He was CM Punk before CM Punk showed up, just much more consistent and crisp in-ring.
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
sure thing Hunter
warrior didn't have more charisma than bret and hbk??
i wonder how warrior's legacy would look if that DVD was never released, cause that to me feels like when all the usual slander towards warrior was started. "he couldn't work", "he wasn't talented"... it's bullshyt. even jericho claimed on his podcast that when the DVD was being made that everyone was directed to say negative things.
warrior is one the greatest talents the wrestling business has ever seen. like scott hall once said, you can't force an arena full of people to stand up and scream for you. so if warrior was lacking in all these departments then perhaps you could tell me why he was a bigger star and more popular than both bret and shawn combined.
if vince could just hype any old random dude to the moon than how come he couldn't hype hbk up that level???
i mean hbk had the talent right? what's his excuse?
Randy not in the same league as HBGOAT
Embarrassing to even ask this question, HBGOAT has classic matches for days while randy has maybe a fraction
Embarrassing to even ask this question, HBGOAT has classic matches for days while randy has maybe a fraction