"All BAD Things Must Come to an End" - Breaking Bad Season 5: Part 2 Official Thread (SPOILERS)

[Black Ball]

The matter was resolved in his mind....and then season 5 happened. Jesse has spent this whole season second guessing everything he knows about Walt. Like I said earlier in the thread, I don't think we needed a moment specifically for the ricin....like "he lied about Mike, he lied about feeling sorry for Drew Sharp dying....I bet he's lying about the ricin too!". I mean....Jesse just came from a meeting where he accused Walt of constantly manipulating him, killing Mike, and possibly plotting his death. That scene is literally right before he goes to Saul's office. He gets pick-pocketed a second time....it's not to think he'd piece that together, with the mind state he was in, and the accusations he'd just made.

Fred.

Jessie has been leary about Walt for a while now. But Jesse also believes he has a handle on when Walt is lying to him because it usally makes sense. Like Jessie never fully believed Walt about Mike or the little kid. He had his evidence in his own mind, and basically gave Walt the mental on those topics. Jessie doesn't think everything Walt says is a lie though. Jessie believes in his own intellect and the shyt made sense to him about the whole Brock incident at that time. If Brock had actually been poisoned with the Ricin or Jessie never found it at his house, then it would make sense that he would second guess that whole incident. Finding the Ricin in his home would seem to be more convincing than a passing thought about Huell pick pocking him once before.

 

[hex]

Thing is, Jesse sobbed and cried when Walt found that Cig in the vacuum. 1. He genuinely believed that he had lost that Cig, that was settled in his mind. 2. Brock being poisoned by Gus was also settled in Jesse's mind. 3. Brock wasn't poisoned with Ricin, so there is no connection in his mind to Walt doing it in the 1st place.

So pick-pocketing his Weed would mean that Jesse realized in an instant that A)Walt made Saul make Huell pick pocket me B)for the purpose to get me to confront Walt. C) So that Walt would have the opportunity to manipulate me about Gus using the Ricin on Brock. D)When all along Walt knew that Brock wasn't even poisoned by Ricin, E)But Walt also knew that I wouldn't figure that part out until later, F)Making me wonder what was the point of stealing the Ricin if Brock wasn't even poisoned with it? G)Oh yeah Walt knew I would figure out that I got pick pocked by Saul under orders from Walt.

Question:
1. Was it Walt's plan for Jessie to figure out that He was pick pocketed at Sauls office, meaning that Walt gave the order to Saul then used the Ricin on Brock, giving Jessie the motivation to confront Walt? Walt is assuming alot of shyt in this plan.
2. Was it Walt's plan to pick pocket the Ricin from Jesse so that Jessie would think that Brock somehow got it from him without him realizing it? This seems more logical, but Jesse doesn't have motivation to confront Walt in this instance.

Wait so Walt knew that Jessie was smart enough to figure out that puzzle, but not smart enough to be talked out of it?

I'm just rambling here...

You're over complicating things breh.

Best case scenario Jesse assumes Gus took the ricin and poisoned the kid.

That didn't happen, so Walt had to lie his ass off and use the "Gus has hurt kids before, hasn't he?" Tomas card from season 3.

Even if Walt was smart enough to look ahead, and think "maybe Jesse won't be fooled by this, and he'll come after me"....that was an acceptable risk considering Walt was dead on his feet anyway.

And that's literally all there is to the plan. It didn't even go off as well as Walt had hoped, he almost got shot over it. And then on top of that, Jesse found out anyway.

Lastly, like I said earlier in the thread, he gets pick-pocketed again under similar circumstances directly after a scene where he accuses Walt of constantly manipulating and lying to him. It's not a stretch to assume he'd think back to the last time he lost something, and in light of him realizing Walt is full of shyt, reassess what happened the first time.

Fred.

 

[Black Ball]

@23statcity



Walt insisted that Jesse and his friends expand into new territory. Which lead to Combo dying. Which lead to the "sit down" with Gus, which lead to Tomas dying. Which lead to Jesse trying to avenge their death, which lead to Walt killing the two goons.

So none of this shyt would've happened if Walt wasn't greedy.

And what's funny is, Gus doesn't even mention killing Walt until episode 11 of season 4....this is after Walt buys a gun and tries to murk Gus in his home, tries to talk Mike into helping him kill Gus, gets some of Gus's workers sent back to Honduras, runs up in Los Pollos Hermanos and tries to shoot Gus then calls the police on Tyrus. Which leads me to believe Walt brought that on himself, because Mike tells him "you won, learn to take yes for an answer" in the season 4, ep 2, and in season 5, ep 8 says Walt would be able to "cook as long as you want, and make as much money as you want, if you hadn't blown everything up". I think Gus was willing to let the past be the past because he had no chemist at that point, if Walt hadn't spent most of the season acting like a lunatic.

Fred.

Actually I think Walt was the smart one to know how cold and calculating Gus was. Walt knew that Gus might let him cook for a whole year without incident, but he also knew that eventually if Gus ever found a replacement for Walt, he would kill Walt in an instant and Walt wouldn't see it coming. Walt knew that he had to be proactive, because even though Gus was fine with the situation for the moment, he knew Gus would kill him at some point. Gus wasn't about to let bygones be bygones. No matter how pragmatic Gus was, he was also a G.

 

[Hades]

Are people forgetting that Jesse was searching to high hell for that ricin cigarette? He turned his house inside out and still found nothing. Then Walt comes through on some "Let's look one more time" ish. After all that searching, the ricin just happens to be in the roomba during the search with Walt. Walt then comforts Jesse and tells him that everything is fine with respect to him pulling the gun on him.

Now tell me that you wouldn't have it in your mind how Walt shows up and all of a sudden everything is fine and dandy. Please do not forget that the passing of events are much closer than us watching the story unfold. This is something that is on his mind especially after all of the new developments.

Side Note: Jesse looked up to and respected the hell out of Walt. Walt believed in him and essentially made him worth something.

Side Side Note: Huell lifting Jesse in the same way is the clue. Jesse goes to see Saul and gets hit with the okey doke and then once more. You would remember something like that.

 

[marcuz]

Thing is, Jesse sobbed and cried when Walt found that Cig in the vacuum. 1. He genuinely believed that he had lost that Cig, that was settled in his mind. 2. Brock being poisoned by Gus was also settled in Jesse's mind. 3. Brock wasn't poisoned with Ricin, so there is no connection in his mind to Walt doing it in the 1st place.

yes at that moment, jesse believed him. does that mean it removed 100% doubt? not at all. could have removed even 90% doubt, but if you've still got any lingering doubt, ESPECIALLY IN RETROSPECT, it can come back to haunt the person who deceived you.

So pick-pocketing his Weed would mean that Jesse realized in an instant that A)Walt made Saul make Huell pick pocket me B)for the purpose to get me to confront Walt. C) So that Walt would have the opportunity to manipulate me about Gus using the Ricin on Brock. D)When all along Walt knew that Brock wasn't even poisoned by Ricin, E)But Walt also knew that I wouldn't figure that part out until later, F)Making me wonder what was the point of stealing the Ricin if Brock wasn't even poisoned with it? G)Oh yeah Walt knew I would figure out that I got pick pocked by Saul under orders from Walt.

well, i dont believe jesse put the pieces together like that. all he knew was he had a cig with ricin in it, that cig came up mysteriously missing. brock ends up sick with what looks like ricin poisoning, so he confronts walt over it, believing he had something to do with it. (i don't even remember jesses exact reasoning for why walt would do such a thing, i need to rewatch the episode) turns out it wasn't the ricin and walt just so happens to find the ricin in his vacuum cleaner. cries and hugs were had by all. now FF to the present, jesses caught walt in a bunch of lies and acts of obvious attempts @ manipulation. huell lifts something from his pocket AGAIN. this time it was much more blatant and obvious what actually happened. once jesse believed huell did that favor for saul, doesn't it stand to reason he did it the first time for saul? this is why jesse goes straight to sauls office to confront him on the ricin and get confirmation of his suspicions.

Question:
1. Was it Walt's plan for Jessie to figure out that He was pick pocketed at Sauls office, meaning that Walt gave the order to Saul then used the Ricin on Brock, giving Jessie the motivation to confront Walt? Walt is assuming alot of shyt in this plan.
2. Was it Walt's plan to pick pocket the Ricin from Jesse so that Jessie would think that Brock somehow got it from him without him realizing it? This seems more logical, but Jesse doesn't have motivation to confront Walt in this instance.

Wait so Walt knew that Jessie was smart enough to figure out that puzzle, but not smart enough to be talked out of it?
I'm just rambling here...

well he didn't figure out he was pick pocketed immediately, he just got a call from brocks mom that he was sick with some mysterious illness. (that just so happens to cause all the same symptoms jesse just learned from walt a few episodes prior) thats when he checked his box of cigs to find out it wasn't there. but yeah, it was walts plan for jesse to confront him. walt needed a reason to go "who do we know that's okay with killing kids?" y'all need to rewatch that season. jesse was bonding seriously close to mike and gus, walt was basically out of the door and had to find a way to get jesse on his side -- since jesse earned more about gus operation than he'd ever know w/o him.

additionally, yall need to chill the fukk out. the ricin plot aint even over yet. we don't know why walt decided to hide it, or why he went back to pick it up a few episodes ago. yall should just chill and let the show take its course, this shyt aint LOST

 

[hex]

Jessie doesn't think everything Walt says is a lie though.

Jesse accused Walt of manipulating him, lying to him, and jerking him around their entire relationship in the scene directly before Saul's office. He had the gun on him season 5, ep 8 because he was convinced Walt was there to kill him. There is no trust there now.

If this happened season 5, ep 3 I could understand people being because that's directly after he found the ricin in the Roomba. But by ep 8 Jesse wanted nothing to do with Walt, or anything he had to say.

Fred.

 

[Black Ball]

You're over complicating things breh.

Best case scenario Jesse assumes Gus took the ricin and poisoned the kid.

That didn't happen, so Walt had to lie his ass off and use the "Gus has hurt kids before, hasn't he?" Tomas card from season 3.

Even if Walt was smart enough to look ahead, and think "maybe Jesse won't be fooled by this, and he'll come after me"....that was an acceptable risk considering Walt was dead on his feet anyway.

And that's literally all there is to the plan. It didn't even go off as well as Walt had hoped, he almost got shot over it. And then on top of that, Jesse found out anyway.

Lastly, like I said earlier in the thread, he gets pick-pocketed again under similar circumstances directly after a scene where he accuses Walt of constantly manipulating and lying to him. It's not a stretch to assume he'd think back to the last time he lost something, and in light of him realizing Walt is full of shyt, reassess what happened the first time.

Fred.

I never even thought about that. No way Jessie thinks that's the 1st possible explanation. Gus doesn't even know about the Ricin. Jessie is also convinced before talking to Walt that there is no way Gus could have known or got it from him. It would seem that the Jessie's 1st guess would be that he was somehow the one at fault and that the Kid got it from him. But that doesn't lead to him confronting Walt or turing against Gus.

 

[hex]

Actually I think Walt was the smart one to know how cold and calculating Gus was. Walt knew that Gus might let him cook for a whole year without incident, but he also knew that eventually if Gus ever found a replacement for Walt, he would kill Walt in an instant and Walt wouldn't see it coming. Walt knew that he had to be proactive, because even though Gus was fine with the situation for the moment, he knew Gus would kill him at some point. Gus wasn't about to let bygones be bygones. No matter how pragmatic Gus was, he was also a G.

Maybe....but that doesn't really jive with what Mike said in either scene I mentioned. The way Walt was acting he completely destroyed any chance, anyway.

And as gangsta as Gus is he's also running a business and in the last 30ish years he's had a total of 3 chemists....Max, Gale, and Walt. It's not as if he can pull another one out of thin air to run an $8 mill lab.

Fred.

 

[hex]

I never even thought about that. No way Jessie thinks that's the 1st possible explanation. Gus doesn't even know about the Ricin. Jessie is also convinced before talking to Walt that there is no way Gus could have known or got it from him. It would seem that the Jessie's 1st guess would be that he was somehow the one at fault and that the Kid got it from him. But that doesn't lead to him confronting Walt or turing against Gus.

Walt made the ricin in Gus's lab breh. Where there is cameras everywhere. Walt even mentions "Gus has cameras every where, he sees everything!". That's another reason why it was kinda easy to convince Jesse that Gus did it.

Lastly there isn't much of a window for the kid to take the cigarette since Jesse said he had it in his pack that morning, he went to the lab, went to see Saul, then the kid came up sick so he went to the hospital. So nah....I doubt him thinking the kid took it ever crossed his mind.

Fred.

 

[Black Ball]

Jesse accused Walt of manipulating him, lying to him, and jerking him around their entire relationship in the scene directly before Saul's office. He had the gun on him season 5, ep 8 because he was convince Walt was there to kill him. There is no trust there now.

If this happened season 5, ep 3 I could understand people being because that's directly after he found the ricin in the Roomba. But by ep 8 Jesse wanted nothing to do with Walt, or anything he had to say.

Fred.

What I mean is that Jesse hasn't trusted Walt for a long ass time now. Jessie hasn't trusted Walt since Mike 1st took him under his wing and Gus was being good to him. He just wasn't willing to let Gus kill him because they had history. Jessie knows that Walt will lie and manipulate for his own benefit. Jessie does believe he can tell the difference also, that's what I mean when I say that Jessie doesn't think every single thing Walt ever said was a lie and now he has to go back and question everything from the past that he has already established as truth in his own mind. Jessie been accusing Walt of lying about mad shyt going back to Season 3.

 

[hex]

What I mean is that Jesse hasn't trusted Walt for a long ass time now. Jessie hasn't trusted Walt since Mike 1st took him under his wing and Gus was being good to him. He just wasn't willing to let Gus kill him because they had history. Jessie knows that Walt will lie and manipulate for his own benefit. Jessie does believe he can tell the difference also, that's what I mean when I say that Jessie doesn't think every single thing Walt ever said was a lie and now he has to go back and question everything from the past that he has already established as truth in his own mind. Jessie been accusing Walt of lying about mad shyt going back to Season 3.

Breh, he accuses Walt of faking everything, their entire "friendship", in the scene before Saul's office. Yes he's thought Walt was shady before but it was never so bad that he thought Walt wanted him dead just because he was inconvenient.

Fred.

 

[hex]

Are people forgetting that Jesse was searching to high hell for that ricin cigarette? He turned his house inside out and still found nothing. Then Walt comes through on some "Let's look one more time" ish. After all that searching, the ricin just happens to be in the roomba during the search with Walt. Walt then comforts Jesse and tells him that everything is fine with respect to him pulling the gun on him.

Now tell me that you wouldn't have it in your mind how Walt shows up and all of a sudden everything is fine and dandy. Please do not forget that the passing of events are much closer than us watching the story unfold. This is something that is on his mind especially after all of the new developments.

Side Note: Jesse looked up to and respected the hell out of Walt. Walt believed in him and essentially made him worth something.

Side Side Note: Huell lifting Jesse in the same way is the clue. Jesse goes to see Saul and gets hit with the okey doke and then once more. You would remember something like that.

Exactly. What's funny is Walt even points out the Roomba. "When did you check there?"

I can imagine Jesse piecing all this together as he went back to Saul's.

Fred.

 

[Black Ball]

Walt made the ricin in Gus's lab breh. Where there is cameras everywhere. Walt even mentions "Gus has cameras every where, he sees everything!". That's another reason why it was kinda easy to convince Jesse that Gus did it.

Lastly there isn't much of a window for the kid to take the cigarette since Jesse said he had it in his pack that morning, he went to the lab, went to see Saul, then the kid came up sick so he went to the hospital. So nah....I doubt him thinking the kid took it ever crossed his mind.

Fred.

That's looking at it from Walt's paranoid perspective and after the fact. Gus taking it is the last thing in Jesse's mind. No way Walt even thinks that Jessie would blame Gus before he blamed him.

I agree on your second point.

 

[The Prince of All Saiyans]

for the guys begging for links, here is "buried".

 

[Black Ball]

Maybe....but that doesn't really jive with what Mike said in either scene I mentioned. The way Walt was acting he completely destroyed any chance, anyway.

And as gangsta as Gus is he's also running a business and in the last 30ish years he's had a total of 3 chemists....Max, Gale, and Walt. It's not as if he can pull another one out of thin air to run an $8 mill lab.

Fred.

Naw you can't take into account what Mike said as having merit in that sense. Mike was pissed that Walt fukked everything up which was a fact. Doesn't mean that Walt was safe or that Mike even cared that Walt was safe or not. Also Mike doesn't call the shots. I can see Mike trying to let bygones be bygones and telling that to Gus, but Gus don't take orders from Mike. That 3 chemist thing doesn't mean anything to Walt, plus Gale & Max never did anything to get on Gus's bad side. Walt knows without a doubt that when he leasts expects it, he's a dead man.