Secure Da Bag

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Just a reminder, there's a whole thread for "what's socialist or not" here - The Official Socialism/Democratic Socialism/Communism/Marxism Thread

Nordic countries aren't socialists. They're social democracies, therefore, still capitalists.

Also, dictatorships and oilgarchies masking and parading themselves as socialists aren't great examples either.

The US currently has millions of people starving to death and it's capitalist.

I doubt there has been even one legitimate socialist country since Marx came up with the idea.
 

88m3

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BREAKING: Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has scheduled a first vote on the Green New Deal championed by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in hopes it fails in the Senate.


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McConnell announces vote on Green New Deal
Senators are leaving Thursday and will return to Washington on March 25. The Senate will vote on whether or not to take up the Green New Deal resolution after they wrap up a circuit court nominee.
 

Mission249

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Just a reminder, there's a whole thread for "what's socialist or not" here - The Official Socialism/Democratic Socialism/Communism/Marxism Thread

Nordic countries aren't socialists. They're social democracies, therefore, still capitalists.

Also, dictatorships and oilgarchies masking and parading themselves as socialists aren't great examples either.

The US currently has millions of people starving to death and it's capitalist.

I doubt there has been even one legitimate socialist country since Marx came up with the idea.
Honest question: do you think the specific definition of socialism as defined by Marx is useful in a modern context?

I'm leaning towards no, I think in the modern era a lot of Americans championing for socialism are being colloquial and actually want social democracies - increased socialization of specific industries (like health care) but remaining a mixed economy (of socialism and capitalism e.g. almost nobody is asking for the socalization of the dishwashing machine industry).

I'm interested in your take because in general (not you specifically) the "that's not what socialism is!" retorts I've heard haven't been useful, just pedantry about something that never really existed. I could probably talk about how the US doesn't truly practice capitalism too.
 

Secure Da Bag

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Honest question: do you think the specific definition of socialism as defined by Marx is useful in a modern context?

Given all the confusion and conflation that has gone with the concept of socialism, yes.

I'm leaning towards no, I think in the modern era a lot of Americans championing for socialism are being colloquial and actually want social democracies - increased socialization of specific industries (like health care) but remaining a mixed economy (of socialism and capitalism e.g. almost nobody is asking for the socalization of the dishwashing machine industry).

The problem is that over 90% of the people talking about socialism don't know what social democracy is and don't even realize that what they want is actually social democracy not socialism. It's why these dumb counterpoints about Venezuela, USSR, Cuba, or China keeps coming up.

I'm interested in your take because in general (not you specifically) the "that's not what socialism is!" retorts I've heard haven't been useful, just pedantry about something that never really existed. I could probably talk about how the US doesn't truly practice capitalism too.

Why should we be ok with functional ignorance? What the Progressive movement is talking about and wants is social democracy. Why describe it or even call it socialism? Then find yourself arguing against a bunch of pseudo-socialist country comparisons.
 

wtfyomom

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In one sense socialism is used for social democracy but the people against it basically use it as a term for totalitarianism or a dictatorship, nobody is really using it right or you can also say socialism is so broad that the social democracies may count even though its a mixed economy. but at least the confusion from the progressives is understandable to an extent. social programs, the name is socialism. the conflation with it being some type of dictatorship makes no sense. I think the reason the term is being embraced by the left is that either way youll get called a socialist so you might as well just say it. i mean they called obama one
 

Kenny West

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Just a reminder, there's a whole thread for "what's socialist or not" here - The Official Socialism/Democratic Socialism/Communism/Marxism Thread

Nordic countries aren't socialists. They're social democracies, therefore, still capitalists.

Also, dictatorships and oilgarchies masking and parading themselves as socialists aren't great examples either.

The US currently has millions of people starving to death and it's capitalist.

I doubt there has been even one legitimate socialist country since Marx came up with the idea.
Socalism as a talking point I feel is just a right wing red herring to give them a platform to push back against programs and actions that help the groups of people they want to discriminate against.

America is the most capitalist country on the planet and the idea of this place turning full on socialist is ludicrously fake. This is the country where any and everything is looked to be exploited for money.

I dont beleive in socialism because in a practical sense it requires the people running the system to be impervious to greed. America shouldn't lose its capitalist identity but it has so much more room to go left on taking care of their citizens rather than exploiting them.

Sidebar: looks like this dude had been reading the recent concern trolling in this thread :russ:
2vy5j0l_d.jpg
 

rapbeats

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I'm curious about what that guy was saying. But that was a expert reversal. Someone @NAP. THAT. is a master class she just put on.
it's not hard to do when you know in your heart of hearts what the truth is and that you are pushing said truth to the masses. It's very easy to debate, every easy to reverse the crazy talk because you know what this is really about.
 

88m3

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"White supremacists committed the largest # of extremist killings in 2017.

What the President is saying here: “if you engage in violent acts of white supremacy, I will look the other way.”

Understand that this is deliberate. This is why we can’t afford to sit on the sidelines."


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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez slams President Trump's response to question about white supremacism
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) accused President Trump of signaling that he will “look the other way” on white supremacism, pointing to his remarks reacting to the killing of 50 people at two mosques in New Zealand.
 

Professor Emeritus

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Oh and my favorite, what about Norway, who has a way freer market than we do with privatized education, healthcare, pensions (social security), and post office.

Wow, that sounded like total bullshyt so I did a quick google search.

The Nordic model is underpinned by a free market capitalist economic system that features high degrees of private ownership[3] with the exception of Norway, which includes a large number of state-owned enterprises and state ownership in publicly listed firms.

The state of Norway has ownership stakes in many of the country's largest publicly listed companies, owning 37% of the Oslo stockmarket[37] and operating the country's largest non-listed companies including Equinor and Statkraft.

"Private Upper Secondary Education. Norway has a very small private upper secondary education sector compared to most countries. Approximately 7 per cent of upper secondary pupils are enrolled in private schools."

"Healthcare in Norway. The healthcare system in Norway is one of the best in the world. There are both public and private facilities – public services are subsidised by the government and are either free or cost only a small fee, while private healthcare is funded by patient fees and is much more costly."

Despite the common values, the Nordic countries take different approaches to the practical administration of the welfare state. Denmark features a high degree of private sector provision of public services and welfare, alongside an assimilation immigration policy. Iceland's welfare model is based on a "welfare-to-work" (see workfare) model while part of Finland's welfare state includes the voluntary sector playing a significant role in providing care for the elderly. Norway relies most extensively on public provision of welfare.[41]

"The Government Pension Fund of Norway comprises two entirely separate sovereign wealth funds owned by the government of Norway.

The Government Pension Fund Global, also known as the Oil Fund, was established in 1990 to invest the surplus revenues of the Norwegian petroleum sector. It has over US$1 trillion in assets, including 1.3% of global stocks and shares, making it the world’s largest sovereign wealth fund.[1] In May 2018 it was worth about $195,000 per Norwegian citizen.[2] It also holds portfolios of real estate and fixed-income investments. Many companies are excluded by the fund on ethical grounds.

The Government Pension Fund Norway is smaller and was established in 1967 as a type of national insurance fund."

"When you work and pay tax, you are an obligatory member of the national insurance scheme. It is your employer who is responsible for your membership of the national insurance scheme."

"In 2013, labour union density was... 51% in Norway. In comparison, labour union density was...11% in the United States.

Norway’s parliament has approved a radical goal of achieving climate neutrality by 2030, two decades earlier than planned





Breh, Norway is the WORST example an anti-AOC person could vouch for. :mjlol::mjlol::mjlol:

At least your claim about the postal system was correct. Oh, wait!

Posten Norge or Norway Post is the name of the Norwegian postal service. The company, owned by the Norwegian Ministry of Transport and Communications has a monopoly on distribution of letters weighing less than 50g throughout the country.

:umad:


I know he ghosted after telling us Norway was his favorite country, but someone just sent me this meme.

54523384_10157314174369268_2069368603886485504_n.jpg




It's like a country run by AOC policies. :ohhh:

Breh, I know why you posted so much here, I think you might be in love and not even know it. :lolbron:
 

DEAD7

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I know he ghosted after telling us Norway was his favorite country, but someone just sent me this meme.

54523384_10157314174369268_2069368603886485504_n.jpg




It's like a country run by AOC policies. :ohhh:

Breh, I know why you posted so much here, I think you might be in love and not even know it. :lolbron:
We are still making side by side comparison with homogenous, ADOS free countries the size of California?:gucci: that trust their government? and aren't tasked with leading the free world...


...reminds me of jahfocus arguing worker owned means of production because it worked in some village somewhere where everyone knew each other.
 
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