African Americans Need To Boycott The Democratic Party

Broke Wave

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
18,701
Reputation
4,580
Daps
44,583
Reppin
Open Society Foundation
This is what I always try to tell people; They even have statistics out there asking for people's thoughts on the health care who live in Massachusetts and the approval was damn near into the 90s for Massachusetts Doctors who said care improved since it was implemented.

I keep telling folks that they are going to be surprised at how popular ObamaCare for the simple fact that is just the federal mandate of the state version.

Just like how Maryland's Dream Act will also be a success when it is fully implemented on the state level.

Now as I said in my post in the previous pages, I do have a list of what Obama I would like to do more for black people specifically in terms of government union reform(USPS,etc) and prison/incarceration reform, and employment in inner cities. But to make the case with saying things like "Republican Plan" and try to pass off successes he made as failures simply because it was based on a "Republican" plan is kind of silly.

And @Broke Wave I'm not picking on you by the way or being condescending don't take it the wrong way. No hard feelings.


No I don't take it that way at all, it's all good breh. I feel like Barnone was being unusually condescending but I feel your disagreement with me is genuinely based on a difference of opinion

As far as calling his plan a Republican plan and whether that is silly, it is a Republican plan, and for progressives to be supporting a Republican plan which has yet to be proven successful on the national level, that is what is actually silly.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

No1

Retired.
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
30,069
Reputation
4,736
Daps
66,980
No I don't take it that way at all, it's all good breh. I feel like Barnone was being unusually condescending but I feel your disagreement with me is genuinely based on a difference of opinion

As far as calling his plan a Republican plan and whether that is silly, it is a Republican plan, and for progressives to be supporting a Republican plan which has yet to be proven successful on the national level, that is what is actually silly.

I don't know if you replied to me last night or not, but I'm honestly the least condescending person you'll ever meet, it just doesn't translate well through text because I have a very direct but nonchalant way of saying things. If I could give you some sort of heuristic, literally everything I say is with a :manny: like half-disinterested tone. Another thing is that I spend a max 1 and half hours on here (plug-in on my browser) so I just type shyt and don't really pay attention to how it comes across.

Again, I only ever mentioned you were Canadian because there are somethings that you can't possibly fully get unless you've been around policymakers and watched DC work first-hand. Just like how when we were talking about Pakistan we @ alybaba. But maybe I shouldn't have said Canadian because a lot of American posters have never sat in DC and watched that wrangling either. But you're still making general statements that necessarily follow, you make unfounded assumptions. Like "a progressive supporting a republican plan" is silly. It's shyt like that makes me question you. Especially when that Republican plan you're questioning was pushed forward by JOHN CHAFFEE who as a Republican was one of the most liberal members of the Senate by any metric. One of the last Rockefeller Republicans. How else do you think he kept winning in RHODE ISLAND, the most reliably Democratic state in the country.

Come on man, you're smarter than this.
 

Broke Wave

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
18,701
Reputation
4,580
Daps
44,583
Reppin
Open Society Foundation
I don't know if you replied to me last night or not, but I'm honestly the least condescending person you'll ever meet, it just doesn't translate well through text because I have a very direct but nonchalant way of saying things. If I could give you some sort of heuristic, literally everything I say is with a :manny: like half-disinterested tone. Another thing is that I spend a max 1 and half hours on here (plug-in on my browser) so I just type shyt and don't really pay attention to how it comes across.

Again, I only ever mentioned you were Canadian because there are somethings that you can't possibly fully get unless you've been around policymakers and watched DC work first-hand. Just like how when we were talking about Pakistan we @ alybaba. But maybe I shouldn't have said Canadian because a lot of American posters have never sat in DC and watched that wrangling either. But you're still making general statements that necessarily follow, you make unfounded assumptions. Like "a progressive supporting a republican plan" is silly. It's shyt like that makes me question you. Especially when that Republican plan you're questioning was pushed forward by JOHN CHAFFEE who as a Republican was one of the most liberal members of the Senate by any metric. One of the last Rockefeller Republicans. How else do you think he kept winning in RHODE ISLAND, the most reliably Democratic state in the country.

Come on man, you're smarter than this.

Again, I only ever mentioned you were Canadian because there are somethings that you can't possibly fully get unless you've been around policymakers and watched DC work first-hand.

This is Barnone in a nutshell :laff: I don't know why every discussion that we have has to turn into BrokeWave's experience and formal education vs Barnone's experience and formal education instead of the substance.

I'm not even going to try and have a reasonable discussion with you breh until you get off that. Oh for the record John Chaffee voted with his party 78% of the time

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/C000269

real liberal. Stop this
 

No1

Retired.
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
30,069
Reputation
4,736
Daps
66,980
This is Barnone in a nutshell :laff: I don't know why every discussion that we have has to turn into BrokeWave's experience and formal education vs Barnone's experience and formal education instead of the substance.

I'm not even going to try and have a reasonable discussion with you breh until you get off that. Oh for the record John Chaffee voted with his party 78% of the time

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/C000269

real liberal. Stop this

You're not having reasonable discussions in the first place, that's you in a nutshell. You can't have a reasonable discussion if you speak only in generalities and start googling when it's time to talk specifics. Second, I didn't start bringing up your experience until yesterday, and it's from sitting back and watching you. And it's common sense, your lack of experience is why you often fail to take everything into account. Because I'm assuming based on your posts that you're not ignorant. So either you are a rigid ideologue who ignores all information to the contrary, or you just lack experience. Pick your option. You give the least detailed arguments out of anyone I consistently have any sort of conversation with on here that plays well on the stump trail. I won't bite on your attempts to ad hominem me to death and brush off someone calling you out and telling you to support your arguments. You're the same guy who called Obama a blue dog yesterday when he voted with his party as higher margin than Chaffee did, you can't be serious with this logic. He was fiscally conservative, no one denies that, he was a moderate, but nearly pure LIBERAL on SOCIAL issues which is obviously what you should have surmised from me saying Rockefeller Republican. Read up:

Frequently following a moderate path, Chafee was pro-choice on abortion and supported the North American Free Trade Agreement. He took a moderate stance on taxes and government assistance to the needy. On social issues, Chafee was among the most liberal members of the Senate. He opposed the death penalty, school prayer, and the ban on homosexuals serving in the military. Chafee was one of the few Republicans to support strict gun control laws. He sponsored a bill that, if passed, would have prohibited the "manufacture, importation, exportation, sale, purchase, transfer, receipt, possession, or transportation of handguns and hand ammunition."

During the late 1980s and 1990s Senator Chafee became an advocate for improving the U.S. health care system. He supported legislation to expand Medicaid coverage for low-income children and pregnant women, sponsored legislation to expand the availability of home and community-based services for persons with disabilities and worked to enact legislation to establish Federally Qualified Health Centers. In 1992, he was appointed Chairman of the Senate Republican Task Force on Health, and he worked to develop a consensus among Republicans on health care. In 1993, he joined with Democratic Louisiana Senator John Breaux to form the Senate Mainstream Coalition, a coalition of six Democratic and six Republican Senators seeking bipartisan consensus on health reform. He sponsored legislation that increased funds to states to assist youths in making the transition from foster care to independing living; recognized the need for special help for youths ages 18 to 21 who have left foster care; offered states greater flexibility in designing their independent living programs; and, established accountability for states in implementing independent living programs. As a testimonial to the late Senator Chafee, the program is now entitled the John H. Chafee Foster Care Independence Program.
 

Broke Wave

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
18,701
Reputation
4,580
Daps
44,583
Reppin
Open Society Foundation
You're not having reasonable discussions in the first place, that's you in a nutshell. You can't have a reasonable discussion if you speak only in generalities and start googling when it's time to talk specifics. Second, I didn't start bringing up your experience until yesterday, and it's from sitting back and watching you. And it's common sense, your lack of experience is why you often fail to take everything into account. Because I'm assuming based on your posts that you're not ignorant. So either you are a rigid ideologue who ignores all information to the contrary, or you just lack experience. Pick your option. You give the least detailed arguments out of anyone I consistently have any sort of conversation with on here that plays well on the stump trail. I won't bite on your attempts to ad hominem me to death and brush off someone calling you out and telling you to support your arguments. You're the same guy who called Obama a blue dog yesterday when he voted with his party as higher margin than Chaffee did, you can't be serious with this logic. He was fiscally conservative, no one denies that, he was a moderate, but nearly pure LIBERAL on SOCIAL issues which is obviously what you should have surmised from me saying Rockefeller Republican. Read up:


Man you just called this dude one of the most Liberal senators in the senate... and when I post evidence to prove the opposite you call me a rigid ideologue, then accuse me of ad hominems? And then you characterize my arguments as vague ... of all things my arguments are vague :dead:

I don't think you understand what it means to be a Liberal friend. He is a fiscal conservative, which is the most important part of the left-right dichotomy. Being a fiscal conservative AUTOMATICALLY disqualifies you from being "one of the most liberal senators by any metric". Social issues are a distraction from the meat of what we as progressives ask government to do and that is facilitate an equitable and productive economic atmosphere. A plan which involves economics and fiscal issues by a fiscal conservative being championed by another fiscal conservative in Obama is nothing for you to be defending. Voting with your party for Obama does not make him a liberal. The Democratic party is largely not a progressive party... that is the point of this thread.

As far as me calling Obama a blue dog... OBAMA CALLED OBAMA A BLUE DOG. In his own words he said "I am a blue dog".

I think we need a referee or something... Some how I think you're over there looking at your screen like "AH HA THIS GUY BROKE HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT" and I don't think anyone else thinks that... so stop acting like I come across foolish... please @ one person who disagrees or agrees with me and ask them if I come across misinformed. Not ONE person would say that.
 

No1

Retired.
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
30,069
Reputation
4,736
Daps
66,980
Man you just called this dude one of the most Liberal senators in the senate... and when I post evidence to prove the opposite you call me a rigid ideologue, then accuse me of ad hominems? And then you characterize my arguments as vague ... of all things my arguments are vague :dead:

I don't think you understand what it means to be a Liberal friend. He is a fiscal conservative, which is the most important part of the left-right dichotomy. Being a fiscal conservative AUTOMATICALLY disqualifies you from being "one of the most liberal senators by any metric". Social issues are a distraction from the meat of what we as progressives ask government to do and that is facilitate an equitable and productive economic atmosphere. A plan which involves economics and fiscal issues by a fiscal conservative being championed by another fiscal conservative in Obama is nothing for you to be defending. Voting with your party for Obama does not make him a liberal. The Democratic party is largely not a progressive party... that is the point of this thread.

As far as me calling Obama a blue dog... OBAMA CALLED OBAMA A BLUE DOG. In his own words he said "I am a blue dog".

I think we need a referee or something... Some how I think you're over there looking at your screen like "AH HA THIS GUY BROKE HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT" and I don't think anyone else thinks that... so stop acting like I come across foolish... please @ one person who disagrees or agrees with me and ask them if I come across misinformed. Not ONE person would say that.

I don't need a referee nor do I need to continue discussing anything with you if you're going to post like this. I won't even get into the dishonest game of words you're playing right now. Do not tell people what social issues were and were not important in the late 80s and early 1990s in the United States. Or what American progressives wanted without supporting that. You can't something that reckless when he was pro-choice in the era where Roe v. Wade was decided and Evangelicals were co-opting the Republican party. No, those social issues were very important to progressives and still remain so. Especially when social welfare programs, which I highlighted are tied to both social and economic issues. Particularly at a time where John Chaffee backing such issues in an era of Bush and Reagan where such issues were tied to race as much as they were to economics. The implications were on both. So Chaffee being socially liberal on many of those issues, led to him to many "progressive" initiatives, (even if some of them failed to gained traction because of Republicans).

This thread was not about Democrats not being a true progressive party I simply told you to support your argument. With sophisticated analysis. Not the bullshyt that gets us by in poli sci 101, I consider you one of the smarter people here...that's why I thought that shyt was awful. Please don't lecture me on "we as progressives." I'm a progressive, I know what progressives support, 98% of my posts are pushing progressive ideas, so you need to sit down and ask yourself why a fellow progressive thinks you're making vapid arguments. Because to me progressive goals matter more than progressive politics or progressive methods, if it works, it works. So what I critique are the functions and underlying rationale towards that end. Yelling and political noise that does not properly critique actual policies or lack thereof, just sounds like political noise to me.

You are aware of the issues (the broad), most people on here are, you are either unaware of purposefully obtuse in regards to the minutia of politics. Any critique that does not weigh these factors appropriately is prima facie invalid.
 

CASHAPP

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
26,322
Reputation
-2,514
Daps
47,928


Finally a sensible discussion between two people. Yeah I agree Obama definitely needs to get on something. He made his "Organizing For America" Campaign be active throughout the next years of his presidency as stated by Michelle Obama in that announcement weeks ago. So he should take advantage even more of that good idea.

I know he is focused on gun control and comprehensive immigration reform now, but as the fact that the volunteer organization "OFA" is out there still, he can multi task and make sure to address the poverty and unemployment issue for blacks.

The guy in the video made a great point that I never even thought about before when he said Obama mentions the terms "economy" but not "poverty" as much like the half a sentence in his inauguration speech.

I really hope he gets on this and makes it part of his next legislative agenda. Climate Change can be done through executive orders, and bills like "Respect For Marriage Act" and "Paycheck Fairness Act" are what I call lightweight issues especially since both most likely will end up being passed by 2016 anyway.

He should worry about the little things later.

He needs to at this point in my opinion make his own "New Deal" or "Great Society" that is not just going to continue to give occasional peices of food(besides health care obviously because that was a huge deal for 2014). I am hoping for something expansive on that level of "New Deal" or "Great Society" and like I said this should/would be comprehensive that includes multiple things like "Student Loan Forgiveness Act" , and @theworldismine13 good idea about bank accounts

@theworldismine13 by the way, don't know if you ever knew this but in the presidential campaign back in 2007/2008 Hillary was in the news for having some proposal called "American Retirement Accounts Plan"; We can have something like this and tweak it and try to address the huge issue of blacks next to hispanics being most likely the ones to deal with savings problems and running into debt and not managing properly.

Possibly try addressing to them the fact that we need to get out of this mindset that just cash only is okay, and educate them on the benefits of having an account. So we don't continue to have folks think they can buy houses with just cash and be okay in the long run. Pretty much educate them to not be like the rapper I stan for lol. Rack up on penalties for banks across the nation who deny loans to African Americans, even when they are wealthier than a white counterpart.

So......anyone have any catchy names to go with "New Deal" and "Great Society" if Obama surprises everyone and their mama if he comes out with something big?

:ehh:

That Fair Minimum Wage Act to increase the national minimum wage in the country would definitely at least help to solve the problem of poverty especially in improving the disparity in income. It needs to be passed already.



Focus primarily on young black men and preaching to them the various employment opportunities besides Law school and medical school and let them know the engineering field has a real shortage of them.

I think the more and more, we promote various options/opportunities of diverse positions besides the mainstream ones, the more and more you will see people realizing there is still hope and they do not only have 2 options in life with a certain job/major and don't have to choose to work at a store because those 2(law school/medical school) did not work out.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
207
Reputation
-10
Daps
151
Reppin
NULL
exactly, and i would add to that support of school vouchers, and blocking the legalization of a huge influx of low wage workers and stopping one of the worst government programs ever, public housing, which has created generations of property less black people dependent on the government

we need to expand beyond so called "progressive" policies and look at the other side, everybody from milton freidman and libertarians, that is what it means to be politically independent

republicans can eat a dikk, but their policies have to judged strictly on their merit, not on emotions

*Sigh*:blessed:

Its nice to find a place online where all black people don't think alike.

Others on here, as usual, watch too much Rachel Maddow or listen to too much Thom Hartmann. I'm guilty of both, but in a know thy enemy type of way.

Weaning yourself from someone telling you what to do and telling you what to care about and telling you what to be outraged aboutwill bring you back to focus on what is good for YOU and YOUR PEOPLE.

You can't figure out what's good for you and yours if you are constantly hearing ideas and interjections from outside sources.

And yes it is ridiculous to continue to vote...


















especially for a party that hasn't raised our standard of living none, but has watched millions of us slip into generational poverty without even a cry of outrage or even a plan to change it.

All because of their failed policies. Blind leading the blind. Black people will still be on the bottom of the socioeconomic food chain after Obama leaves office, right below industrious business owning immigrants. smdh

Thumbs up to the video LegendNas posted above, thumbs down to everything else he wrote. LOL
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
207
Reputation
-10
Daps
151
Reppin
NULL
This is probably the best thing to address at the moment. it has a huge disproportionate effect on the Black communtity and it is a well defined focused objective. Its not a generic statement or vision.

When significant percentages of your male population are incarcerated and taken out of society, this is the castration of your people. This needs to stop.

One thing Ive spoken on several times on this forum, is the need for a cultural revitilization. Really what makes the Black community not as strong, not as unified as asians or indians?

Its because there is a loose cultural bond, there is no common language or common point of ancestry (yes, they all came from africa but there is no direct linguistic or cultural link)
.

Very true. I just got finished reading a book on passing down family wealth. He says that weak family structures is what causes bitter fights over inheritances.

I'm looking at my family and we are lacking in a number of these departments, even though we aren't rich...yet.

A lot of this is what is wrong in our community.


1. He says without a strong matriarch AT HOME tending to the children, you aren't likely to raise productive and emotionally healthy adults. The man should work, ideally. Someone HAS to stay at home.
- Most black children are being raised by 1 parent and that one parent doesn't have the time to pay attention to the diverse needs of the children as they grow.


2. Human Capital - "It is the matriarch who builds the family. She develops its human capital. This is the family's most valuable resource. A family with members who are capable of building and preserving wealth will always be able to rebuild if something goes wrong."
- We lack human capital as a race. We have to stop depending on government schools only to educate black kids, most urban schools do a poor job. The education establishment isn't likely to equally educate black kids to eventually compete with white kids in the workplace.


3. Family Culture - a set of beliefs, a mission, a history, holidays, traditions and celebrations. Families need a common narrative about who they are, where they come from, and what they are doing.
- This goes back to what you were saying about our lacking a cultural bond. I had to go ask my father to tell me about our family history and he went :heh: This is what we MUST CHANGE in our community.


4. Family Values - thrift, frugality, underconsumption, delayed gratification are necessary values to hold on to wealth.
- We lack all of the above in the black community. We don't want to be cheap. We want to buy Jordans and Jerseys.


5. Family Business, family hobbies, education goals, marriage standards, family motto and crest, family traditions and rituals, family properties, family investments, family constitution, fighting addictions and troublesome behavior, etc.


We lack everything and we don't even know it. The government WILL NOT help you gain any of the above. It must be a part of your CULTURE.
 

theworldismine13

God Emperor of SOHH
Bushed
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
22,666
Reputation
540
Daps
22,602
Reppin
Arrakis
Very true. I just got finished reading a book on passing down family wealth. He says that weak family structures is what causes bitter fights over inheritances.

I'm looking at my family and we are lacking in a number of these departments, even though we aren't rich...yet.

A lot of this is what is wrong in our community.


1. He says without a strong matriarch AT HOME tending to the children, you aren't likely to raise productive and emotionally healthy adults. The man should work, ideally. Someone HAS to stay at home.
- Most black children are being raised by 1 parent and that one parent doesn't have the time to pay attention to the diverse needs of the children as they grow.


2. Human Capital - "It is the matriarch who builds the family. She develops its human capital. This is the family's most valuable resource. A family with members who are capable of building and preserving wealth will always be able to rebuild if something goes wrong."
- We lack human capital as a race. We have to stop depending on government schools only to educate black kids, most urban schools do a poor job. The education establishment isn't likely to equally educate black kids to eventually compete with white kids in the workplace.


3. Family Culture - a set of beliefs, a mission, a history, holidays, traditions and celebrations. Families need a common narrative about who they are, where they come from, and what they are doing.
- This goes back to what you were saying about our lacking a cultural bond. I had to go ask my father to tell me about our family history and he went :heh: This is what we MUST CHANGE in our community.


4. Family Values - thrift, frugality, underconsumption, delayed gratification are necessary values to hold on to wealth.
- We lack all of the above in the black community. We don't want to be cheap. We want to buy Jordans and Jerseys.


5. Family Business, family hobbies, education goals, marriage, family motto and crest, family traditions and rituals, family properties, family investments, family constitution, fighting addictions and troublesome behavior, etc.


We lack everything and we don't even know it. The government WILL NOT help you gain any of the above. It must be apart of your CULTURE.

Excellent points, but what's the name of the book, don't hold out
 

Serious

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
79,930
Reputation
14,208
Daps
190,264
Reppin
1st Round Playoff Exits
Excellent points, but what's the name of the book, don't hold out
:dead: I knew twism would be :gladbron: over this post...

Honestly, all information, in the post above should be common sense. :whistle:

:scusthov: at living in a generation, where a D- average is acceptable, while not acknowledging how hard our ancestors worked under "real" dire circumstances...
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
207
Reputation
-10
Daps
151
Reppin
NULL
Excellent points, but what's the name of the book, don't hold out

LOL

Family Fortunes by Bill Bonner.

He talks about how the Rothschilds held on to their financial dynasty for over 200 years.

He talks about how a Japanese family held on to wealth for 1400 years!

He also discusses how families lose wealth. I can see this happening to the Walton family soon. It will be a sad American tale.
 

theworldismine13

God Emperor of SOHH
Bushed
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
22,666
Reputation
540
Daps
22,602
Reppin
Arrakis
:dead: I knew twism would be :gladbron: over this post...

Honestly, all information, in the post above should be common sense. :whistle:

:scusthov: at living in a generation, where a D- average is acceptable, while not acknowledging how hard our ancestors worked under "real" dire circumstances...

LMAO

Yeah this book is co-signing a lot of what I've been saying, I remember back in sohh (and in real life actually) I was sitting there talking about culture this and culture that and people thought I had lost my mind but now I see people are coming around

It is common sense but a lot of people think culture is just food, music and dancing and they think political/economic power is something separate so they never connect the two especially when they get caught up in so called progressive politics
 
Top