Aaliyah = Cieara

[user1]

Nobody's re-writing history, but her detractors. If Aaliyah's overrated, the story started when she was alive:

"Actually, she's a streetwise Jackson with a far more soulful song selection. The gritty beats just don't stop on 'One in a Million,' which, a la Jackson, has one track after another aching for sensual choreography"--- Atlanta Journal Constitution, 8/9/1996

"Aaliyah is a contemporary of those other barely post-adolescent R&B crooners, from Mya to Monica to Brandy et al. But with her edge and attitude—not to mention dance skills—the 21-year-old actually has more in common with Janet Jackson."---- Teresa Witz, The Washington Post, 7/22/2001

Bruh, you are quoting the Washington Post for black females singers in the 90s . They don't get that shyt. That's like quoting Pitchfork today. I have a feeling ya'll are young and basing this off of Youtube views and google.

And to even try to bring her dancing ability into this is . Brandy and Monica were never dancers like that. I think Aaliyah, Brandy and Monica were on the same level in terms of dancing. Mya CAN DANCE HER ASS OFF. She is DOPE and would wash all three of them. Come on bruh. That's not even an argument.

And for that sensual choreography aching for blah blah blah write up. Mya has tributed Janet Jackson specifically for her dancing skills. And Michael Jackson . Ya'll funny though.

 

[JustCKing]

Yes. Monica took breaks because of LIFE. Her boyfriend shot himself in front of her. And she still came back making hits. And this argument they are making is pointless now. And for the cat that posted about Aaliyah selling 3 MILLION after her death, that proves the threads point .

Her sales were dipping and she was actually selling closer to what Mya was selling EVEN with Monica taking breaks in music and Brandy with breaks for acting . And after looking at those numbers I would say Mya did fair much better than I thought and was closer to Aaliyah in sales success than I thought (AND she also had Missy writing and producing a lot on her first album so that would also show why her and Aaliyah's success was similar. They were products of the same tree and production/writers . They shared the same sound and benefited the same from it . I might even argue with her going on to win Grammy's and having a HUGE mainstream hit with Lady Marmalade she might even be ahead of Aaliyah in terms of success. (Prob get roasted for that).

Lastly I think what is also lost in this convo is were those numbers ol boy pulled (no disrespect ) on billboard based on RnB/Hip Hop charts or were those songs charting on Billboard Hot 100/200 because there is A BIG DIFFERENCE in reach when comparing the two.

They ALL took breaks. Regardless of the reason. Aaliyah took a 5 year hiatus in comparison to their three and her third album was doing better than both their third albums (before she died). In terms of album sales, how are you overlooking Monica and Aaliyah selling nearly the same amount of copies without copies the albums Aaliyah sold after death and counting Monica's album sales post Aaliyah. Aaliyah sold 3 million after death largely due to her dying in the midst of an album cycle and a posthumous release (which was basically a greatest hits with some new songs sprinkled in). The numbers were based on the Hot 100/200.

Mya was in no way ahead of Aaliyah. "Lady Marmalade" (her biggest song) featured four other female performers bigger than Mya. It wasn't her song alone. She was featured on it. It wasn't even close considering Aaliyah still sold over a million copies more than Mya while she was alive.

 

[user1]

YOURE A DIKKHEAD.

those are pop records. what the hell do they have to do with r&b discussions? i can tell you dudes didnt get into music until like 2002 or some chit.

and timbaland didnt even lace aaliyah's 3rd album. i dont care about all this chit hes talking after the fact.
btw, timbaland was half-dead in the urban sectors. thats why he went pop and started making those bullchit crossover records.

Highlighted was ALL FACTS. And to top it off, they were marketed to WHITE PEOPLE. Justin Timberlake was Justin Bieber. They were going to sell no matter what . And them Justin tracks were fukking wack. That dude is overrated as fukk.

And Timberland was falling off. Missy was still hot if I remember correctly but Timb was not. That is why he took that detour. And that is also why he signed Bubba Sparxxx. His camp (Aaliyah, Ginuwine, Magoo, Tweet, Jade and that singer dude I can't remember were not faring well). Bubba was being marketed as the South's Eminem and he was trying to go at Dre's success.

This was back when Jermaine, Dre and Timb ran urban music. Jermaine was still hot wit Jagged Edge, Usher, Monica, and Bow Wow. Dre had aftermath and 2001 and Eminem/D12. With G Unit next up. Timbaland WAS STRUGGLING. Not too long after that was when even Jay Z stopped fukking with him.

 

[JustCKing]

Bruh, you are quoting the Washington Post for black females singers in the 90s . They don't get that shyt. That's like quoting Pitchfork today. I have a feeling ya'll are young and basing this off of Youtube views and google.

And to even try to bring her dancing ability into this is . Brandy and Monica were never dancers like that. I think Aaliyah, Brandy and Monica were on the same level in terms of dancing. Mya CAN DANCE HER ASS OFF. She is DOPE and would wash all three of them. Come on bruh. That's not even an argument.

And for that sensual choreography aching for blah blah blah write up. Mya has tributed Janet Jackson specifically for her dancing skills. And Michael Jackson . Ya'll funny though.

I never said any of what was posted was valid. The whole point in me posting that was to show that even in the 90's (when she was alive), people were making grand comparisons. For the record, one of the writers I quoted, Teresa Wiltz isn't just some out-of-touch rinky dink CAC writer. She's written for all kinds of publications including Essence.

 

[user1]

It goes beyond that, my dude. You have singers like Drake and Chris Brown directly talking about how much they love Aaliyah, etc. Or cats like J Cole who play Aaliyah tracks at shows, rhyme on Aaliyah beats and even go as far to base their hits on Timbaland/Aaliyah sounding shyt (Tell me "Nobody's Perfect" and that track with Miguel aren't Timbo influenced). Tinashe dealing with Aaliyah comparisons.

LOL at acting like it's some random sample that doesn't need to be discussed. like Norman Connors or some shyt.



is that in your head or fact? Any of those artist list or talk about Monica as a direct influence? As Whitney famously said..



Irrelevant comment. Wtf has this got to do with who Jennifer Hudson, Kelly, Jazmin etc are MUSICALLY influenced by?



Honestly, I don't think you understand my initial question. Why would you go back to Whitney/Mariah? we were never talking about them, and they're too early for this convo.

I'm saying... there are 3 singers that are constantly compared in this thread as contemporaries: Brandy, Monica and Aaliyah.

cats like Wacky D claim that Monica and Brandy were far more popular in their day and are still more influential RnB singers today than Aaliyah ever was.

I'm asking for receipts.

We've seen lots of Aaliyah's 'children' since her death. Where are Monica and Brandy's kids?

Answer that question and I'll be good.

I'm a female.

I don't think you understand how lineage and musical influence works. I've listened to all those people. And in this thread we WERE talking about overall influence which included, style, fashion, cultural impact, reach AND MUSIC. Now he aren't anymore because you don't have a leg to stand on .

Those artist I listed have careers that are the mold of Brandy and Monica. I listed Whitney and Mariah because those are the artist that Brandy and Monica came out of the mold from. Can you follow the logic now?

And for the record, I'm not surprised Drake and Chris Brown non singing asses WOULD site Aaliyah as their "influence." But just like those dikkheads, just because you say that is an influence I don't hear none of that "influence" in their sound or in their image, style, cultural impact. Damn ya'll must lap up whatever bullshyt these people feed you instead of thinking, looking and listening for YOURSELF.

And I just gave you Monica and Brandy's children and you acted like it wasn't real .

And I will give you Tinashe being an Aaliyah contemporary in that she is a pretty girl which minimal vocal ability and limited dancing ability that is banking on dudes wanting to fukk her and woman wanting to "look" like her. Not much there to be honest. She is the run of the mill artist we were talking about. She is Ciara and Aaliyah so I'm not even arguing that. . You are proving my point and you ain't even know it.

I never said she wasn't influential just NOT AS BIG AS PEOPLE CLAIM HER TO BE after her death. She was average with a good sound that happened to go out of style. And yes I do like some of her songs but I'm able to be non-biased where I don't think most of ya'll can.

 

[JustCKing]

I'm a female.

I don't think you understand how lineage and musical influence works. I've listened to all those people. And in this thread we WERE talking about overall influence which included, style, fashion, cultural impact, reach AND MUSIC. Now he aren't anymore because you don't have a leg to stand on .

Those artist I listed have careers that are the mold of Brandy and Monica. I listed Whitney and Mariah because those are the artist that Brandy and Monica came out of the mold from. Can you follow the logic now?

And for the record, I'm not surprised Drake and Chris Brown non singing asses WOULD site Aaliyah as their "influence." But just like those dikkheads, just because you say that is an influence I don't hear none of that "influence" in their sound or in their image, style, cultural impact. Damn ya'll must lap up whatever bullshyt these people feed you instead of thinking, looking and listening for YOURSELF.

And I just gave you Monica and Brandy's children and you acted like it wasn't real .

And I will give you Tinashe being an Aaliyah contemporary in that she is a pretty girl which minimal vocal ability and limited dancing ability that is banking on dudes wanting to fukk her and woman wanting to "look" like her. Not much there to be honest. She is the run of the mill artist we were talking about. She is Ciara and Aaliyah so I'm not even arguing that. . You are proving my point and you ain't even know it.

I never said she wasn't influential just NOT AS BIG AS PEOPLE CLAIM HER TO BE after her death. She was average with a good sound that happened to go out of style. And yes I do like some of her songs but I'm able to be non-biased where I don't think most of ya'll can.

These artists are speaking for themselves. No one's writing press releases saying "Aaliyah influenced Drake, Tinashe etc.". Drake, J. Cole, Ciara, Sevyn Streeter, and several other artists have cited Aaliyah as influence.

 

[user1]

They ALL took breaks. Regardless of the reason. Aaliyah took a 5 year hiatus in comparison to their three and her third album was doing better than both their third albums (before she died). In terms of album sales, how are you overlooking Monica and Aaliyah selling nearly the same amount of copies without copies the albums Aaliyah sold after death and counting Monica's album sales post Aaliyah. Aaliyah sold 3 million after death largely due to her dying in the midst of an album cycle and a posthumous release (which was basically a greatest hits with some new songs sprinkled in). The numbers were based on the Hot 100/200.

Mya was in no way ahead of Aaliyah. "Lady Marmalade" (her biggest song) featured four other female performers bigger than Mya. It wasn't her song alone. She was featured on it. It wasn't even close considering Aaliyah still sold over a million copies more than Mya while she was alive.

So this is still

I never said any of what was posted was valid. The whole point in me posting that was to show that even in the 90's (when she was alive), people were making grand comparisons. For the record, one of the writers I quoted, Teresa Wiltz isn't just some out-of-touch rinky dink CAC writer. She's written for all kinds of publications including Essence.

SO WHY POST IT?

You post quotes that aren't even true, to prove a point that isn't valid, so I can make a point that you refuse to answer even though it is accurate in comparison to your flawed logic . I guess that makes some sense in some far out distant land. I will give you a hint in conversation, you usually want to use quotes or facts that are RELEVANT AND TRUE if you want an honest discussion and response. Stop moving goal posts.

And my whole point in saying what those writers do is make up stupid examples that have nothing to do with the music. And I don't take Essence as a valid magazine either because they on that fukk shyt when it comes to music as well. And Essence is a lifestyle magazine to begin with. Not a music magazine. And to top it off SHE WASN'T writing that for Essence. She would obviously have to change her style for the magazine she is writing for. I'm done with this shyt.

Lastly, I don't get my musical tastes from what writers of magazines tell me. I LISTEN AND STUDY THE MUSIC.

I'm done talking to you cause this is pointless.

 

[user1]

These artists are speaking for themselves. No one's writing press releases saying "Aaliyah influenced Drake, Tinashe etc.". Drake, J. Cole, Ciara, Sevyn Streeter, and several other artists have cited Aaliyah as influence.

Pardon me I had to laugh at that. And that there folks is what the thread started has been saying.

 

[JustCKing]

Pardon me I had to laugh at that. And that there folks is what the thread started has been saying.

That's not the same. The OP was saying that Aaliyah = Ciara. That's not true. Their respective careers took two different paths. Ciara's first album contains her biggest hits. It's her highest selling album. Each album since has seen a decline. On the other hand Aaliyah's second album sold about the same amount as her first. Her biggest hit came 6 years after her debut and became the first song in Billboard history to hit #1 off airplay alone. Ciara hasn't been as influential as Aaliyah. She's still a better dancer, but that's pretty much where it stops.

 

[JustCKing]

So this is still

SO WHY POST IT?

You post quotes that aren't even true, to prove a point that isn't valid, so I can make a point that you refuse to answer even though it is accurate in comparison to your flawed logic . I guess that makes some sense in some far out distant land. I will give you a hint in conversation, you usually want to use quotes or facts that are RELEVANT AND TRUE if you want an honest discussion and response. Stop moving goal posts.

And my whole point in saying what those writers do is make up stupid examples that have nothing to do with the music. And I don't take Essence as a valid magazine either because they on that fukk shyt when it comes to music as well. And Essence is a lifestyle magazine to begin with. Not a music magazine. And to top it off SHE WASN'T writing that for Essence. She would obviously have to change her style for the magazine she is writing for. I'm done with this shyt.

Lastly, I don't get my musical tastes from what writers of magazines tell me. I LISTEN AND STUDY THE MUSIC.

I'm done talking to you cause this is pointless.

Read the post you just quoted again. It's an opinion, which is only true if you agree. My logic here is not flawed. My premise was to show that Aaliyah supposedly being "overrated" didn't start with her dying. It has been that way.

I

 

[Wacky D]

Welcome to Wacky's World

this is your longest post ever.

thats all the newer posters need to know about you.

Age Ain't Nothing but a Number - R. Kelly
One in a Million - Timbaland/Missy
Aaliyah - Static Major/Timbaland

She switch up producers for her 3 albums so none of them sound the same....Just throwing that out there

i never said they sounded the same.

If we're talking 2001/2002, then Timbaland was still one of the biggest producers in the Urban sectors. Petey Pablo's "Raise Up", Bubba Sparxxx's "Ugly", Ludacris's "Roll Out", Missy's "Get Ur Freak On", "Work It", "One Minute Man", Tweet's "Oops" and "Call Me" were all big records.

clearly i was referring to the time period when he went pop.

CLEARLY.

Just stop. You don't even know what you're talking about. Aaliyah's third album sounds nothing like the previous two.

Your reason for Monica getting shelved has no bearing on it being shelved. It was a completed album with singles.

In addition, the first single released from the project, "All Eyez on Me" had experienced moderate success on the charts, while follow-up "Too Hood," also got a lukewarm response.[2] As a result, the album was pulled from stores days after the release and Monica's label J Records asked her to substantially reconstruct the record with a host of new producers, including musician Missy Elliott who would emerge as the new version's executive producer.[2]

i never said it SOUNDED like the previous two. the first two dont even sound alike.

youre another one of those guys i dont like talking to for different reasons. you have no perspective on anything no matter the topic. its like talking to a machine. look at your responses.

 

[SirBiatch]

And for the record, I'm not surprised Drake and Chris Brown non singing asses WOULD site Aaliyah as their "influence." But just like those dikkheads, just because you say that is an influence I don't hear none of that "influence" in their sound or in their image, style, cultural impact. Damn ya'll must lap up whatever bullshyt these people feed you instead of thinking, looking and listening for YOURSELF.

Because you're deaf.

J Cole: Best Friend, Nobody's Perfect, Aaliyah tributes in his concerts (all over Youtube).

Drake: Bria's Interlude, Legend... Missy/Timbo era samples

and this: http://ca.complex.com/music/2012/08/a-history-of-drakes-obsession-with-aaliyah/

http://www.billboard.com/articles/6229108/aaliyah-influence-on-music-and-fashion

Do you have links to prove that Brandy/Monica are more influential to today's RnB than Aaliyah? Any artists since the 2000s that say, "yo... Monica/Brandy is the truth. I grew up on her sound and I'm inspired by her." Any receipts?

Or you're just gonna keep typing away, using smileys because you lack the intelligence to build an argument?

It personally doesn't matter to me if Brandy/Monica are more influential than Aaliyah. I'm just interested in the truth. I'd prefer if you actually tried to prove your position, rather than hide behind silly shyt like the stuff you wrote below. More talk, less smileys.

And I just gave you Monica and Brandy's children and you acted like it wasn't real .

And I will give you Tinashe being an Aaliyah contemporary in that she is a pretty girl which minimal vocal ability and limited dancing ability that is banking on dudes wanting to fukk her and woman wanting to "look" like her. Not much there to be honest. She is the run of the mill artist we were talking about. She is Ciara and Aaliyah so I'm not even arguing that. . You are proving my point and you ain't even know it.

I never said she wasn't influential just NOT AS BIG AS PEOPLE CLAIM HER TO BE after her death. She was average with a good sound that happened to go out of style. And yes I do like some of her songs but I'm able to be non-biased where I don't think most of ya'll can.

 

[JustCKing]

i never said it SOUNDED like the previous two. the first two dont even sound alike.

youre another one of those guys i dont like talking to for different reasons. you have no perspective on anything no matter the topic. its like talking to a machine. look at your responses.

What it is is that you don't even know what you're arguing. Did you not say that:

consider what? they were all adults and not even in the same lane anymore by that point. aaliyah was the only one still stuck making the same type chit she was doing at 15.

monica got shelved cuz she had REAL CHIT going on.

You're implying that she was still making what she was making since she was 15. If that's not what you meant, clarify?

 

[SirBiatch]

For y'all RnB heads, I'm just not seeing this massive influence that Brandy and Monica have on today's game. I need y'all to point it out. Who in the last 10 years was clearly inspired by Brandy/Monica? Specific shyt that we can point to. With receipts. From musical style to artist image (which are the key things that make an artist anyway)

You provide the evidence, I'll leave y'all alone and rock with what you're saying.

 

[JustCKing]

Highlighted was ALL FACTS. And to top it off, they were marketed to WHITE PEOPLE. Justin Timberlake was Justin Bieber. They were going to sell no matter what . And them Justin tracks were fukking wack. That dude is overrated as fukk.

And Timberland was falling off. Missy was still hot if I remember correctly but Timb was not. That is why he took that detour. And that is also why he signed Bubba Sparxxx. His camp (Aaliyah, Ginuwine, Magoo, Tweet, Jade and that singer dude I can't remember were not faring well). Bubba was being marketed as the South's Eminem and he was trying to go at Dre's success.

This was back when Jermaine, Dre and Timb ran urban music. Jermaine was still hot wit Jagged Edge, Usher, Monica, and Bow Wow. Dre had aftermath and 2001 and Eminem/D12. With G Unit next up. Timbaland WAS STRUGGLING. Not too long after that was when even Jay Z stopped fukking with him.

Nothing in that post was fact. I posted songs that were all hits during that time period. Some of them were bigger hits than what Dr. Dre had out at the time with exception of Mary's Dre produced "Family Affair". You said JD, Dre and Timb ran Urban, but go on to say Timbaland was struggling. You just put him in the company of three of the biggest producers in music, yet he was struggling? Are you really forgetting the hits Timbaland laced for Petey, Bubba, and Ludacris? Jay Z was working with Timbaland heavy up until he retired with The Black Album. When Jay came back, he performed with Timbaland.