ok I got the gist of it but will probably read all the parts for more details/understanding…thanks man
A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread
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ok I got the gist of it but will probably read all the parts for more details/understanding…thanks man
hard to keep it short, but I will try my best.
Basically the TGNC rests on the idea that Robb legitimized Jon as a stark and named in his heir before he died. The northern lords and some river lands lords know of the contents of the will and are working to put a stark back in winterfell.
Some northern lords “align” with the Boltons and some “align” with Stannis, playing both sides against each other they can hopefully eliminate or weaken both to a point that they can’t challenge the northern lords when they try to seat Jon Snow(stark b/c the will made him legitimate) and name Rickon Stark his heir who has been stashed away in Skagos. Rickon also serves as a check on the fake Arya since he is a male heir of the stark line.
Maege Mormont and Robbett Glover went to share the news with howland reed who also knows Jon’s true parentage and is potentially how we find that out in the next book (that is never going to be finished)
Again, this theory is pretty intricate with a ton of moving parts but this is the shortest synopsis I could come up with.
Nah
GRRM has always been adamant in the belief that fan engagement shouldn't affect your work
He's admitted that he's checked out fan theories over the years but I wouldn't bet on him deviating from the mountain of his own work to incorporate some shyt
The only reason George ain't finished them books is because that show made him famous beyond anything he could've ever anticipated. Imagine becoming a celebrity in your 60s. You wouldn't get shyt done either
If we never got the show Winds of Winter would've been out years ago and we'd probably be a year or so away from Dream of Spring
As far as fan theories being intricate that's par for the course. Ice and Fire is so outrageously intricate that naturally it's fans would try to match the level of intricacies that inspired them to theorize in the first place
I trust Grrm to not attempt something so dumb. He got enough on his own plate. I reread Feast for Crows recently and the LAST thing he needs is more theories, conspiracies and foreshadowing. He's got enough for 4 more authors.
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I'm not disagreeing that you may be right, but there really is no excuse for his bullshyt when his contemporaries (Brando Sando to be specific, and Joe Abercrombie, Steven Erickson, Ian Esslemont)) can fire out 2-4 books with practically the same amount, if not more world/character building. GRRM not finishing these books is a fukking joke. Agreed, he probably got lost in the sauce because of the popularity and fame he got, but he said recently that he hasn't really left his house in 3 years due to covid, and is only 3/4th of the way done WoW, so unless he is secretly writing DoS at the same time, we are never getting a conclusion, and I'm not ever shooting bail for him again. He has plenty of people in his inner circle who can help him write, he has given his alpha editors/draft readers a significant amount of power to write his compendiums/world building books, and histories. Him, and Patrick Rothfuss can both get fukked (was gonna put Scott Lynch in there, but he actually finished the next Gentleman b*stards series, waiting on release, but complete).Nah
GRRM has always been adamant in the belief that fan engagement shouldn't affect your work
He's admitted that he's checked out fan theories over the years but I wouldn't bet on him deviating from the mountain of his own work to incorporate some shyt
The only reason George ain't finished them books is because that show made him famous behind anything he could've ever anticipated. Imagine becoming a celebrity in your 60s. You wouldn't get shyt done either
If we never got the show Winds of Winter would've been out years ago and we'd probably be a year or so away from Dream of Spring
As far as fan theories being intricate that's par for the course. Ice and Fire is so outrageously intricate that naturally it's fans would try to match the level of intricacies that inspired them to theorize in the first place
I trust Grrm to not attempt something so dumb. He got enough on his own plate. I reread Feast for Crows recently and the LAST thing he needs is more theories, conspiracies and foreshadowing. He's got enough for 4 more authors.
I say all that to say, I am currently on Fire & Blood for the third time, and have went through about 5 or 6 significantly large series since my last listen, and GRRM's writing is really incredible inside the epic fantasy genre, and I will always consume anything he puts out *pause*, but he pisses me the fukk off.
Diunx
Probably drunk
Re-reading the series for the first time and I gotta say, when you know what's gonna happen the books are incredibly depressing and sad, the chapter where the raven arrives to Winterfell with news of Eddard's dead filled me with dread.
shyts hard, I have done it like 5 times and there are still parts that kill me. For this reason, and the amount of time it would take, has stopped me from doing Malazan again. It’s like watching the Godfather, and every single time I’m like Sonny, don’t get in the car lol
Cheesy
All Star
Re-reading Malazan is like another experience though
I read the whole thing three times (two if I add in Esslemonts books) and there is so much foreshadowing and set ups you only appreciate on a reread. shyt happening in book three that you forgot the first time but now you are like 'oh shyt, in book six this gonna have consequences 
'Some scenes never get easy though
Re-reading Malazan is like another experience though
Some scenes never get easy though
Whiskey Jack, why the fukk you didn't just get that leg fixed? Anomandor, why you gotta be everything to everybody? Geslar and Stormy, why couldn't yall have just retire? Beak...........The most tragic, to me[d/SPOILER]
LOST IN THE SAUCE
The Sauce Apostle
I was speaking specifically about the prophecies from the House of the Undying, but yeah I'm with @O.Red on this one. A lot of the foreshadowing is laid out so intricately in this series, changing things up towards the end just doesn't make sense.
I think more likely it's taking so long because he's foreshadowed so many different events and he can't figure out how to get his characters there naturally.
I'm not making excuses for Grrm but the facts are the facts
Also I get your point about the other authors, but everybody's process is different I wouldn't be so quick to force other standards on Grrm, especially when we already know how dense and intricate his work is. Ice and Fire is just about unrivaled in that aspect as far as I can tell
And again I stress that none of those authors you named have had a series become a fraction as successful as Game Of Thrones. I think because of the way it ended nikkas don't really understand that shyt had the entire world in a chokehold and was an unprecedented piece of media. We're not talking about just a decent adaptation we're talking about a show that hijacked popular culture for a decade and skyrocketed Grrm's popularity
I hate as much as anybody that the books ain't out(and I don't think they're ever coming out) and I'll never hesitate to shyt on George but I also understand the factors that led to the situation he's in.
Again, the nikka became a celebrity in his 60s
And I think nikkas should stop using Sanderson as a metric or standard that nikka is clearly a mutant or cyborg
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I think this is a factor too. I don't speak on it as much because it's hard to gauge the extent of it
For as great as the books are there is a part of me that thinks George fell into his indulgence a bit too much
I love Feast for Crows but he kinda fukked up
that book introduces and sets up enough shyt for 4 more books 
All that Greyjoy shyt could be a book series on its own and I think Euron has an ENORMOUS role in the coming books. Then you still got Dorne, Griff, Cersei, the army of the dead ,etc. It's a lot
And the show does a decent job of it because of the leniency of TV pacing, but I don't see how George gets Dany out of the east and to Westeros in two books, and I think George is feeling the same way
Piff Perkins
Veteran
I don't think Martin is influenced by fan theories because he refuses to read them. I'm sure fans have verbally told him theories that made him think "that's interesting" but overall the longer this goes the longer it's clear how meticulous he is as a writer/planner. Yes he has described himself as a gardener type writer, but even the earliest books have clear foreshadowing or introductions that come to fruition books later (ie he planted the seeds). I was watching a theory vid recently that pointed out Marwyn The Mage is not only referenced in the first book, he is brought up to Dany. And now he's traveling to meet her. I had totally forgotten that he was established in the first book. Somewhat connected to that, in the second book there's a reference to "Urrathon Night-Walker" reporting that glass candles have activated...and the theory that he's almost certainly Euron Greyjoy.
He's really good at what he does. For years I was tuned out of all book related stuff. I watched GoT but stopped looked at theories. I remember when the Grand Northern Conspiracy came out and that shyt was so exciting. But that was almost a decade ago. Same with some of the other theories that emerged from ADWD, like the Stannis/Night Lamp theory on how he'll defeat the Freys. House Of The Dragon inspired me to get back into theories. But man...knowing the book probably won't come out next year will likely kill my excitement again.
He's really good at what he does. For years I was tuned out of all book related stuff. I watched GoT but stopped looked at theories. I remember when the Grand Northern Conspiracy came out and that shyt was so exciting. But that was almost a decade ago. Same with some of the other theories that emerged from ADWD, like the Stannis/Night Lamp theory on how he'll defeat the Freys. House Of The Dragon inspired me to get back into theories. But man...knowing the book probably won't come out next year will likely kill my excitement again.