A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[The Watcher]

You don't think he has done enough of that with the one true king of Westeros already though?

So far in the show - Stannis is portrayed as an opportunistic, religious fanatic that is willing to do just about anything to win - including burning his own daughter. They literally don't have time to delve into the nuanced reasoning behind it, so it comes across as bad all the time. Even the Stannis scenes that show him in a good light don't do enough to show any kind of character development.

So far in the books - Stannis is so far portrayed as the rightful king that has gotten shyt on by everyone his entire life, even though he did all the heavy lifting for them to succeed. He doesn't burn people at the drop of a hat, instead he tells them to pray harder. He talks about how much he loves his daughter who is his only heir. He went along with killing Renly, but it's arguable that he was somewhat justified in that action. He figured out the Lannisters were putting their incest babies on the throne before anyone else got around to it. He's been shown over and over again to be a fair, just person. Davos respects him and Davos is the greatest.

I think as of last night, the show has jumped way ahead of the books. I think they sped up the Stannis storyline because there are only 2 seasons left and what we saw is going to be similar to what GRRM eventually does, show how a man who is the best fit to rule and actually cares about the threat of the Others getting corrupted by ambition and prophecy. That is on level with what he's done with every other big character so far in the story. It's Macbeth.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Stannis character quite a bit. He may well end up saving the entire world in some way. Maybe burning Shireen does something that we don't know about yet that will change the game. Maybe he is actually Azor Ahai and was right all along.

But I do believe whatever happens, GRRM told the show runners about it already and they are writing with the end-game in mind, so all these people freaking out about how the show is ruining the characterization of Stannis are forgetting that we don't have the complete story yet and there's still a couple thousand pages that could easily turn Stannis into a man that would burn his own daughter for some greater good reason.

 

[tjwettem]

So far in the show - Stannis is portrayed as an opportunistic, religious fanatic that is willing to do just about anything to win - including burning his own daughter. They literally don't have time to delve into the nuanced reasoning behind it, so it comes across as bad all the time. Even the Stannis scenes that show him in a good light don't do enough to show any kind of character development.

So far in the books - Stannis is so far portrayed as the rightful king that has gotten shyt on by everyone his entire life, even though he did all the heavy lifting for them to succeed. He doesn't burn people at the drop of a hat, instead he tells them to pray harder. He talks about how much he loves his daughter who is his only heir. He went along with killing Renly, but it's arguable that he was somewhat justified in that action. He figured out the Lannisters were putting their incest babies on the throne before anyone else got around to it. He's been shown over and over again to be a fair, just person. Davos respects him and Davos is the greatest.

I think as of last night, the show has jumped way ahead of the books. I think they sped up the Stannis storyline because there are only 2 seasons left and what we saw is going to be similar to what GRRM eventually does, show how a man who is the best fit to rule and actually cares about the threat of the Others getting corrupted by ambition and prophecy. That is on level with what he's done with every other big character so far in the story. It's Macbeth.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Stannis character quite a bit. He may well end up saving the entire world in some way. Maybe burning Shireen does something that we don't know about yet that will change the game. Maybe he is actually Azor Ahai and was right all along.

But I do believe whatever happens, GRRM told the show runners about it already and they are writing with the end-game in mind, so all these people freaking out about how the show is ruining the characterization of Stannis are forgetting that we don't have the complete story yet and there's still a couple thousand pages that could easily turn Stannis into a man that would burn his own daughter for some greater good reason.

"Old Gods or new, it makes no matter. No man is so accursed as the kinslayer"

Shadow baby or not, nothing can justify kinslaying.

 

[The Watcher]

"Old Gods or new, it makes no matter. No man is so accursed as the kinslayer"

Shadow baby or not, nothing can justify kinslaying.

Yeah, I phrased that terribly, I meant the argument can be made that Stannis felt justified killing Renly and his justifications had some merit in context of succession, not that Stannis was literally right in killing Renly.

 

[ghostwriterx]

You just circled back to my original argument. If Shireen was going to be sacrificed to resurrect Jon, why would HBO skip that plot and just have her stop the snow instead? Jon is a top 3 star of the show. Stannis is a subplot.

I dont think the theorized Jon resurrection is gonna happen

You think Jon's dead or he's not going to die from his wounds?

 

[ghostwriterx]

Remember what Roose Bolton said on the show: That they were prepared for a long siege and that Stannis would run out of supplies in a harsh winter?

He stands no chance without some sort of divine intervention.

Don't forget Manderly is inside doing work.

 

[TheGreatShowtime]

You just circled back to my original argument. If Shireen was going to be sacrificed to resurrect Jon, why would HBO skip that plot and just have her stop the snow instead? Jon is a top 3 star of the show. Stannis is a subplot.

I dont think the theorized Jon resurrection is gonna happen

Isn't Kit Harrington signed on for the next two seasons?

Edit with Source - http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...-thrones-season-seven-actors-raises-contracts

 

[Microfracture]

Renly needed to die.
It doesn't matter whether he was Stannis's brother or not, it's the personal connections a person has that really matters.
And there's no kinslayer curse really it's just that if you have to kill a family member your life is probably shyt already and will continue to get shyttier.

Agree. A breh calls me a ham and its fade on site

 

[fact]

"Old Gods or new, it makes no matter. No man is so accursed as the kinslayer"

Shadow baby or not, nothing can justify kinslaying.

Not buying it. This would make bloodraven one of the worst people in the history of Westeros, as he killed more than one of his half brothers/relatives, and according to some of yall, it doesn't matter the context. What about Egg and Aemons father, Maekor, he killed Baelor Breakspear, his own brother, don't remember him going down as an awful person.

 

[tjwettem]

Not buying it. This would make bloodraven one of the worst people in the history of Westeros, as he killed more than one of his half brothers/relatives, and according to some of yall, it doesn't matter the context. What about Egg and Aemons father, Maekor, he killed Baelor Breakspear, his own brother, don't remember him going down as an awful person.

What happened to all of those individuals as a result of their kinslaying? The exile of bloodraven and almost complete destruction of house targaryen seems like a they were all cursed for their actions as well.

 

[fact]

i have to give it up to you all. Y'all are my brehs in this thread, I been getting sh1t on all day by my wife, co-workers, and friends for my allegiance to the one true king, but yall aren't going in that hard. Daps and reps on deck.

 

[dennis roadman]

i have to give it up to you all. Y'all are my brehs in this thread, I been getting sh1t on all day by my wife, co-workers, and friends for my allegiance to the one true king, but yall aren't going in that hard. Daps and reps on deck.

im still at work tho

 

[fact]

im still at work tho

 

[fact]

Pause that rep I gave you, dawg. Takesy backsies?

 

[Dat Migo]

Anyone see that c*nt Linda have a twitter meltdown?

 

[The Watcher]

It's been a hard 24 for Stannis stans. It wasn't easy finding out the one true king was heading down the road of burning sweet little innocent Shireen. There isn't even any mourning time or outpouring of sympathy like the Robb stans got with Red Wedding, it's just full on Stannis hate and loathing


BUT - if you speed up the processing of all this like they sped up the Stannis storyline last night - you can spend another couple days or so laughing at those reddit fukkboys and the shyt for brains westeros.org crowd losing their minds and having wildly emotional arguments with each other all over the internet