A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[Scottie Drippin]

Please tell this to the zombies in the show thread. They ragged on House Tyrell for the pure fact that Renly was gay.

It's the coli, if course they did All logic on this site goes out the window if the breh kicking facts likes other brehs. Out of all the possible outcomes of Neds letters, Stannis summoning an evil spirit, killing Renly, and pressing his claim to the throne is the darkest timeline on some Community shyt

 

[Dat Migo]

If show watchers have made it this far without knowing Jon gets stabbed, they can probably go another 10 months without finding out he survived

 

[Pifferry]

It's the coli, if course they did All logic on this site goes out the window if the breh kicking facts likes other brehs. Out of all the possible outcomes of Neds letters, Stannis summoning an evil spirit, killing Renly, and pressing his claim to the throne is the darkest timeline on some Community shyt

Renly is a fun character for me to read, I like him in that way and I have no problem that he's gay but I just don't believe he had any business trying to go for the throne.

 

[Chris Cool]

so ramsey just snuck in 20 deep undetected.you kidding me?

i ain't like the way ellaria and was disrespecting doran in front of company, he waited to long to check her.

stannis always been a fukk nikka to me, still though.

@ Jon thinking ollie would be happy to see him. hit him with the young batman hit him with the.


ser jorah with the regular season mvp Peyton Manning cltuch spear throw.

drogon was cool. i thought he was kinda small though.

 

[Diunx]

Don't even know what to say about this shytfest...he burned her in front of his entire army to booth, now I'm supposed to believe that they will follow a psychopath that just burned his own daughter alive?

 

[Chris Cool]

Renly is a fun character for me to read, I like him in that way and I have no problem that he's gay but I just don't believe he had any business trying to go for the throne.

the audacity of it is my favorite part. like think of how little he has to think of stannis to do some shyt like that. no respect at all. low-key i kinda understand why stannis is the way he is.

 

[tjwettem]

the audacity of it is my favorite part. like think of how little he has to think of stannis to dip some shyt like that.no no respect at all. low-key i kinda understand why stannis is the way he is.

Stannis is basically the jan brady of house baratheon. Middle child syndrome something serious.

 

[Foxmulder]

shyt doesn't make sense. In the books Stannis didn't even want to burn Asha, he told them "no more burnings, pray harder." and he told dude if he dies put Shireen on the throne. I'm thinking the show runners just trying to justify their bullshyt. GRRM probably tells them Shireen gets burned. Doesn't mean Stannis is involved.

I don't want to sound like a book purist but the show runners are not that great. They have great source material so the show is great but they fukking suck. Look at the Dorne cluster fukk no lady stoneheart and a lot of other bullshyt. Robb's wife being pregnant just to get stabbed in the stomach all for shock value just like this Shireen shyt.

 

[JulesWinfield]

I'm gonna be so choked if Book Stannis does this. I have a feeling he does because apparently D&D said they got the idea from GRRM.

 

[MidniteJay]

Now I just needed Stannis to die so you guys shut up forever.

 

[jericho]

Sooooo lemme get this straight....

Stannis has:

-withstood a siege @ Storm's End throughout all of Robert's Rebellion to the point where his entire family is starving and eating rats and still would not give in
-took Dragonstone from the last Targaryen forces
-smashed the ENTIRE Iron Fleet in a trap off of Fair Isle and delivered the only L my man Victarion has ever taken
-subdued Great Wyk in Robert's name
-came within a Tyrell sneak attack of gaining the Iron throne
-destroyed the Wildling army despite having 1/5 of their #'s
-liberated Deepwood Motte & united the Northern clans

.....but was completely punked by Ramsay fukking Snow and "20 of his best men" and forced into burning his daughter/becoming a kinslayer?

You lost me showrunners

I'll for sure still watch & enjoy the show but come the fukk on now

 

[Greenstrings]

On one hand I don't like the rules Westeros has for kingship.
But on the other hand I find it douchey that Renly tried to circumvent that not for noble reasons but because he was power hungry and foolish which directly put him against his brother and opened the door for anything.
He wanted to play at war so he got it in return.
Stannis probably saved more lives by killing him.

This is nonsense, Renly had the largest and best supplied army of the 5 and had a much better chance of unseating the Lannisters in King's Landing than Stannis. Also there's no vendetta between him and the North so an agreement could have been reached between him and Robb without further bloodshed. Stannis might have been too stubborn for such a thing, especially with Melisandre in the picture.

With Robert dead the scenario that saves the most live would have been Renly on the Iron Throne.

 

[jericho]

yooo I need @Adam3000 to come in here quick and give me some reactions on this fukkery
Shireeen

....that's my heir

How foul is it they sent Ser Davos away first?

 

[Adam3000]

yooo I need @Adam3000 to come in here quick and give me some reactions on this fukkery
Shireeen

....that's my heir

How foul is it they sent Ser Davos away first?

Taking off my Shireen fan cap for second......

I've been back and forth on it since it happened

This outcome is consistent with SHOW Stannis and how he has been portrayed from the start. He is much more open to the religious zealotry, his character seems less nuanced, and he seems more focused on the throne itself rather than strictly his duty to the thrones. I think they did a weak job of showing his desperation. They needed to spend a whole episode on his breakdown after Ramsey torched the food and supplies. Might have made it more believable. Nonetheless, this has been foreshadowed forever ("You will betray your family. You will betray everything you hold dear") so at least it doesn't seem to be a last second alteration for shock value.

On the other hand, it doesn't seem consistent with BOOK Stannis. But I'm not sure that is relevant. They are two separate people. Stannis has been a different character since the first time we saw him on screen. Furthermore, D&D saying that it was George's idea seemingly makes this situation even more confusing.

I don't know man.....this shyt is just fukked up. What a difficult scene

She was honestly my favorite show characterI like Bran's story the most but I'm talking strictly a character on the show, Shireen was so good to watch every time she was on screen. shyt made me real sour and hurt my enjoyment of the rest of the episode. I need to rewatch Daznak tonight.


Side note......dudes may be going a little overboard with hating on Ramsey's sneak attack. First off, Stannis already said it was likely that his guards were sleeping. Second off, they only torched a few strategic locations. I don't see whats so unbelievable about a small group sneaking through a blizzard around to torch a small section of camp. Its not like they had big orange flags hanging from their back saying "I'm Ramsey Bolton's man"

 

[The Watcher]

Taking off my Shireen fan cap for second......

I've been back and forth on it since it happened

This outcome is consistent with SHOW Stannis and how he has been portrayed from the start. He is much more open to the religious zealotry, his character seems less nuanced, and he seems more focused on the throne itself rather than strictly his duty to the thrones. I think they did a weak job of showing his desperation. They needed to spend a whole episode on his breakdown after Ramsey torched the food and supplies. Might have made it more believable. Nonetheless, this has been foreshadowed forever ("You will betray your family. You will betray everything you hold dear") so at least it doesn't seem to be a last second alteration for shock value.

On the other hand, it doesn't seem consistent with BOOK Stannis. But I'm not sure that is relevant. They are two separate people. Stannis has been a different character since the first time we saw him on screen. Furthermore, D&D saying that it was George's idea seemingly makes this situation even more confusing.

I don't know man.....this shyt is just fukked up. What a difficult scene

She was honestly my favorite show characterI like Bran's story the most but I'm talking strictly a character on the show, Shireen was so good to watch every time she was on screen. shyt made me real sour and hurt my enjoyment of the rest of the episode. I need to rewatch Daznak tonight.


Side note......dudes may be going a little overboard with hating on Ramsey's sneak attack. First off, Stannis already said it was likely that his guards were sleeping. Second off, they only torched a few strategic locations. I don't see whats so unbelievable about a small group sneaking through a blizzard around to torch a small section of camp. Its not like they had big orange flags hanging from their back saying "I'm Ramsey Bolton's man"

I don't know. I've always liked Stannis, but I really think that burning Shireen is in his character - both book and show.

Melisandre gassed him up that he's Azor Ahai reborn. She drilled the prophesy into his head, the prophesy that says the only way Azor Ahai can forge Lightbringer is to sacrifice his true love and become the one great hero that can save the world.

Stannis didn't sacrifice Shireen because he was trying to off some sweet little girl, he sacrificed her because he believes that he has to do this horrible thing to the person he loves most to become the one great hero that saves the world. He's almost certainly wrong, as is Melisandre, because there are better candidates out there (Snowman and Dany), but you can't really blame him for having some belief after a red priestess shows up out of nowhere saying she saw him as the chosen one in her fires and then uses a vagina shadowbaby to kill his brother.

I can see GRRM telling them to go this route too because it's right up his alley. He wrote Stannis to be the ASOIAF equivalent to Macbeth, who was arguably Shakespeare's most tragic character for doing the exact same shyt Stannis is doing right now. I would not be shocked if something very similar happens in the next book.

It doesn't make it less sad to see Shireen burn though. That was horrible and I don't blame people for putting Stannis in the same category as Ramsay/Joffery, especially if they are only watching the show and have no idea about Azor Ahai.