A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

MidniteJay

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well if Robert was as strong as they say he would be able to dodge around him with that hammer. The logic behind war hammers was to hit a cat once and take him out the fight...if he's hit in the arm or leg that joint is broken...the head is a kill of course...

If Robert caught Rhaegar flush in the chest is a strong possibility he just caved his whole chest in....aint no trauma units in Westeros...

I don't see how this is a debate..

That's what I said a few posts back though. Naisim posted a picture of a small looking hammer. I was saying that it didn't look like the type to cave in Rhaegar's chest.

The wording in the books pretty much said Robert crushed Rhaegar so I assume it was a huge hammer :manny:

I'm just saying in real life that kind of weapon isn't really practical. I don't know medieval combat like that but it seems like a dude with a sword would have a faster swing than a nikka with a huge hammer.
 

Dirty Mcdrawz

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That's what I said a few posts back though. Naisim posted a picture of a small looking hammer. I was saying that it didn't look like the type to cave in Rhaegar's chest.

The wording in the books pretty much said Robert crushed Rhaegar so I assume it was a huge hammer :manny:

I'm just saying in real life that kind of weapon isn't really practical. I don't know medieval combat like that but it seems like a dude with a sword would have a faster swing than a nikka with a huge hammer.

a dude with a sword would be faster but all it takes is one misstep.....ask the red viper.
 

HookersandIceCream

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Again what other people are saying. Robert wasnt a normal dude. To him a war hammer was probably like a regular sword.

robert-baratheon-vs-rhaegar-targaryen.jpg
 

MidniteJay

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my bad i was post edited..

Oh so you were talking about Oberyn. But yeah if he didn't get emotional trying to get a confession out of the man, the Red Viper would still be alive. That shyt jolted me like crazy with how he got killed.

But still though Oberyn prove that evasiveness/stamina > heavy types. A prime Jaime vs a prime Robert. I'd go Jaime. While it doesn't mean anything a non-important dude asked him the best defense against warhammers. I wished they showed him going in depth on that.


Again what other people are saying. Robert wasnt a normal dude. To him a war hammer was probably like a regular sword.

robert-baratheon-vs-rhaegar-targaryen.jpg

I don't think anyone denied how strong Robert was. The argument was about the size of his hammer. That's a tight pic tho.
 

NaiSim

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well if Robert was as strong as they say he would be able to dodge around him with that hammer. The logic behind war hammers was to hit a cat once and take him out the fight...if he's hit in the arm or leg that joint is broken...the head is a kill of course...

If Robert caught Rhaegar flush in the chest is a strong possibility he just caved his whole chest in....aint no trauma units in Westeros...

I don't see how this is a debate..

Nah breh I don't buy it.

Robert was tall and strong no doubt, but go to a gym and hand a sledgehammer or a splitting maul to a muscle bound giant and tell him to swing it. Dude will be out of breath in no time and even at the start his swings will be clumsy and recovery takes forever. A weapon that heavy wielded one handed it goes into retarded territory.

Two handed it makes more sense, but heres the thing, its still a fundamentally clumsy weapon. Against a gifted fighter like Rhaegar swinging wildly around you will bring you death rather quicklike. And to top it off he's gonna use it from horseback?

So yeah either people drawing those pictures are ignorant about historical weapons or Martin himself is misguided about the terms.
 

Roger Sterling

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I think most of the AFFC 'hate' comes from the fans that waited 4-5 years for it to come out. It also came after ASOS, which was straight flames every single page. But people need to understand the books can't all be all mind-blowing climaxes like the Red Wedding. AFFC was the 'slow down and set up the pieces for the future' book. Don't believe the negative hype. AFFC is still a damn good book even if it's considered the weakest in the series(which I don't necesarily agree with). It's head-and-shoulders above most other fiction out there...

Hardly. I read all five of the books in a row last summer/autumn for the first time, so that "long wait, high expectation" stuff doesn't apply, and I thought AFfC was absolutely abysmal (marginally better than ADwD). So dull - little plot movement, poor pacing overall and an overkill on certain POVs. Oh, and atrocious editing. It's as if they just didn't care. This is coming from someone that actually likes Cersei and is a big fan of Brienne, by the way.

I thought it couldn't get any worse.

Then I read the next book.
 

Uptown WaYo87

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Alright, so i dont know if this was brought up on this forum before....but heres the theory on oberyn(red viper) poisoning tywin

got this from westeros.org

Tywin Lannister: Dead Man shytting?


“Where will I find my lord father?”
“In the solar with Lord Tyrell and Prince Oberyn.”
Mace Tyrell and the Red Viper breaking bread together? Strange and stranger.
—Jaime and Ser Meryn Trant, upon Jaime’s return to King’s Landing


“Widow’s blood, this one is called, for the color. A cruel potion. It shuts down a man’s bladder and bowels, until he drowns in his own poisons.”
—Grand Maester Pycelle, during Tyrion’s trial


“To be sure, I have much to thank your sister for. If not for her accusation at the feast, it might well be you judging me instead of me judging you.” The prince’s eyes were dark with amusement. “Who knows more of poison than the Red Viper of Dorne, after all?”
[…]
“Your father,” said Prince Oberyn, “may not live forever.”
Something about the way he said it made the hairs on the back of Tyrion’s neck bristle. Suddenly he was mindful of Elia again, and all that Oberyn had said as they crossed the field of ashes. He wants the head that spoke the words, not just the hand that swung the sword. “It is not wise to speak such treasons in the Red Keep, my prince. The little birds are listening.”
“Let them. Is it treason to say a man is mortal? Valar morghulis was how they said it in Valyria of old. All men must die. And the Doom came and proved it true.”
—Prince Oberyn Martell and Tyrion, in Tyrion’s cell


He found his father where he knew he’d find him, seated in the dimness of the privy tower, bedrobe hiked up around his hips.
[…]
For once, his father did what Tyrion asked him. The proof was the sudden stench, as his bowels loosened in the moment of death. Well, he was in the right place for it, Tyrion thought. But the stink that filled the privy gave ample evidence that the oft-repeated jape about his father was just another lie.
Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shyt gold.
—from Tyrion’s assassination of Tywin during his escape from the black cells


The King’s Hand was rotting visibly. His face had taken on a greenish tinge, and his eyes were deeply sunken, two black pits. Fissures had opened in his cheeks, and a foul white fluid was seeping through the joints of his splendid gold-and-crimson armor to pool beneath his body.
[…]
Red-eyed and pale, Cersei climbed the steps to kneel above their father, drawing Tommen down beside her. The boy recoiled at the sight, but his mother seized his wrist before he could pull away.“Pray,” she whispered, and Tommen tried. But he was only eight and Lord Tywin was a horror. One desperate breath of air, then the king began to sob.“Stop that!” Cersei said. Tommen turned his head and doubled over, retching. His crown fell off and rolled across the marble floor. His mother pulled back in disgust, and all at once the king was running for the doors, as fast as his eight-year-old legs could carry him.
“Ser Osmund, relieve me,” Jaime said sharply, as Kettleblack turned to chase the crown. He handed the man the golden sword and went after his king. In the Hall of Lamps he caught him, beneath the eyes of two dozen startled septas. “I’m sorry,” Tommen wept. “I will do better on the morrow. Mother says a king must show the way, but the smell made me sick.”
This will not do. Too many eager ears and watching eyes.“Best we go outside, Your Grace.” Jaime led the boy out to where the air was as fresh and clean as King’s Landing ever got. Twoscore gold cloaks had been posted around the plaza to guard the horses and the litters. He took the king off to the side, well away from everyone, and sat him down upon the marble steps. “I wasn’t scared,” the boy insisted. “The smell made me sick. Didn’t it make you sick? How could you bear it, Uncle, ser?”
—Jaime, Cersei, and Tommen, during Tywin’s funeral.
I’m just saying: means, motive, opportunity.
 

Scottie Drippin

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Nah breh I don't buy it.

Robert was tall and strong no doubt, but go to a gym and hand a sledgehammer or a splitting maul to a muscle bound giant and tell him to swing it. Dude will be out of breath in no time and even at the start his swings will be clumsy and recovery takes forever. A weapon that heavy wielded one handed it goes into retarded territory.

Two handed it makes more sense, but heres the thing, its still a fundamentally clumsy weapon. Against a gifted fighter like Rhaegar swinging wildly around you will bring you death rather quicklike. And to top it off he's gonna use it from horseback?

So yeah either people drawing those pictures are ignorant about historical weapons or Martin himself is misguided about the terms.

War hammers were used in medieval times, mostly one handed so that the user could also use a shield.

You're overestimating the speed of sword users. Dudes using longwords (which about every knight seems to use) one handed while also using shields aren't going to be that fast. Add to that that swords are going to glance off of armor unless they connect in an exact location while a war hammer is going to do damage and there's a quantity v quality advantage.
 

Dirty Mcdrawz

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Alright, so i dont know if this was brought up on this forum before....but heres the theory on oberyn(red viper) poisoning tywin

got this from westeros.org

Tywin Lannister: Dead Man shytting?


“Where will I find my lord father?”
“In the solar with Lord Tyrell and Prince Oberyn.”
Mace Tyrell and the Red Viper breaking bread together? Strange and stranger.
—Jaime and Ser Meryn Trant, upon Jaime’s return to King’s Landing


“Widow’s blood, this one is called, for the color. A cruel potion. It shuts down a man’s bladder and bowels, until he drowns in his own poisons.”
—Grand Maester Pycelle, during Tyrion’s trial


“To be sure, I have much to thank your sister for. If not for her accusation at the feast, it might well be you judging me instead of me judging you.” The prince’s eyes were dark with amusement. “Who knows more of poison than the Red Viper of Dorne, after all?”
[…]
“Your father,” said Prince Oberyn, “may not live forever.”
Something about the way he said it made the hairs on the back of Tyrion’s neck bristle. Suddenly he was mindful of Elia again, and all that Oberyn had said as they crossed the field of ashes. He wants the head that spoke the words, not just the hand that swung the sword. “It is not wise to speak such treasons in the Red Keep, my prince. The little birds are listening.”
“Let them. Is it treason to say a man is mortal? Valar morghulis was how they said it in Valyria of old. All men must die. And the Doom came and proved it true.”
—Prince Oberyn Martell and Tyrion, in Tyrion’s cell


He found his father where he knew he’d find him, seated in the dimness of the privy tower, bedrobe hiked up around his hips.
[…]
For once, his father did what Tyrion asked him. The proof was the sudden stench, as his bowels loosened in the moment of death. Well, he was in the right place for it, Tyrion thought. But the stink that filled the privy gave ample evidence that the oft-repeated jape about his father was just another lie.
Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shyt gold.
—from Tyrion’s assassination of Tywin during his escape from the black cells


The King’s Hand was rotting visibly. His face had taken on a greenish tinge, and his eyes were deeply sunken, two black pits. Fissures had opened in his cheeks, and a foul white fluid was seeping through the joints of his splendid gold-and-crimson armor to pool beneath his body.
[…]
Red-eyed and pale, Cersei climbed the steps to kneel above their father, drawing Tommen down beside her. The boy recoiled at the sight, but his mother seized his wrist before he could pull away.“Pray,” she whispered, and Tommen tried. But he was only eight and Lord Tywin was a horror. One desperate breath of air, then the king began to sob.“Stop that!” Cersei said. Tommen turned his head and doubled over, retching. His crown fell off and rolled across the marble floor. His mother pulled back in disgust, and all at once the king was running for the doors, as fast as his eight-year-old legs could carry him.
“Ser Osmund, relieve me,” Jaime said sharply, as Kettleblack turned to chase the crown. He handed the man the golden sword and went after his king. In the Hall of Lamps he caught him, beneath the eyes of two dozen startled septas. “I’m sorry,” Tommen wept. “I will do better on the morrow. Mother says a king must show the way, but the smell made me sick.”
This will not do. Too many eager ears and watching eyes.“Best we go outside, Your Grace.” Jaime led the boy out to where the air was as fresh and clean as King’s Landing ever got. Twoscore gold cloaks had been posted around the plaza to guard the horses and the litters. He took the king off to the side, well away from everyone, and sat him down upon the marble steps. “I wasn’t scared,” the boy insisted. “The smell made me sick. Didn’t it make you sick? How could you bear it, Uncle, ser?”
—Jaime, Cersei, and Tommen, during Tywin’s funeral.
I’m just saying: means, motive, opportunity.

:ohhh::mindblown::wow:
 
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