A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[KingMalik]

But you remember he was gone tho There's a huge difference between someone being gone and being lied to about there whereabouts versus someone just up and being replaced by someone.

Also, the BIGGEST problem with crackpot theories, not just in ASOIAF but in all literature, is they make no fukking sense.

In great literature, which ASOIAF absolutely is, in the hands of a great storyteller. Things happen for a reason.

Absolutely what purpose does what you're saying serve? That the Dany we know is actually just a random blonde infant who can withstand fire, control dragons, and that absolutely no other chracters involved in this grand conspiracy give a shyt about anymore

High emotion makes things MORE memorable, not less

I'm not doubting that Viserys wouldn't know his sister was gone.....I'm doubting that if his baby sister died and a new newborn baby was swapped in, that a seven year old would be able to tell the difference.

I just have doubts. I don't think Ashara got her brother's sword and hurled herself to death out of grief. That's cheesy as hell. I don't think Ned would make an extra trip south to Starfall to deliver a sword when the most pressing factor should've been getting his secret Targ nephew back to Winterfell. That's dangerous as hell. And....I think its strange Ned had a dream about Lyanna after Robert orders Varys to kill Dany. Ned says that he failed his sister. Jon is safe at The Wall. How did he fail his sister? Why is he dreaming about his sister because of Dany?

 

[The Blind Man]

High emotion makes things MORE memorable, not less

High emotion, . really sparrow.

At 7 or 8 Viserys loses his dad (murdered by his sworn protector), his brother(by the guy leading the rebellion and hunting for him), sister in law (raped and murdered), baby niece and neph (same way), his home is viciously sacked by the ex hand, and is on the run with his pregnant mum, oh yeah who then dies giving birth to his baby sister.

All of this in a few months.

That isnt high emotion sparrow, that is severe fukking trauma,

Dont know if they taught you about PTSD when you did your PHD in Psychology.

Cos Viserys clearly isnt suffering from PTSD when we first meet him, Dany describes him as being a well rounded focused individual.

 

[KingMalik]

Absolutely what purpose does what you're saying serve? That the Dany we know is actually just a random blonde infant who can withstand fire, control dragons, and that absolutely no other chracters involved in this grand conspiracy give a shyt about anymore

High emotion makes things MORE memorable, not less

I didn't say she was random.

I said Jon and Dany were Lyanna and Rhaegar's twins. Dany's still a Targ, she's just Rhaegar's daughter, not The Mad King's.

What purpose does it serve? What purpose was there to create Aegon VI, only to bash his brains into a wall and have an orphan from Essos replace him? I'm not the author. I don't know where the story's going. My guess is "A Song of Ice and Fire" doesn't have to be one person, it could just as easily be about twins who are the opposite of the same coin.

 

[The Blind Man]

As people have mentioned, there's a REASON R+J=L is damn near universally accepted. If you've just gotten into the series in the last few years the idea that all sorts of other shyt is every bit as likely makes sense, but for people who have been reading these books for 10+ years, and all the discussions, the analysis, re-readings, and watching year by year as other theories just get destroyed, R+J=L stands the test of time and ANY evidence, factual or hypothetical, you can throw at it.

Look at how many hoops you have to jump through to make Dany being their child work? You have to, from the very jump, ignore the fact that it's not even hinted, alluded, or even momentarily considered that she was born anywhere other than Dragonstone.

Everything in this series that isn't 100% valid already has some other rumor or evidence or belief against it.

Please show me a SINGLE instance of Dany not being born on Dragonstone being questioned.

Because all you have is conjecture based on nothing in the text. THAT'S what's wrong with this.

Everything you stated also applies to Jon.

When is it ever hinted, alluded or even momentarily considered that Ned isnt Jons father.

"well he said my blood, he didnt say my son"

Okay, well Roose doesnt say I'll send my son to Winterfell, he says I'll send my b*stard, It is semantics. b*stards do not get treated the same as legit kids, plenty of evidence in all the books to support that so Ned not calling him son isnt a reach at all,

Show me the evidence of Jon not being Neds, show me anyone doubting Jon being Neds.

 

[KingMalik]

As people have mentioned, there's a REASON R+J=L is damn near universally accepted. If you've just gotten into the series in the last few years the idea that all sorts of other shyt is every bit as likely makes sense, but for people who have been reading these books for 10+ years, and all the discussions, the analysis, re-readings, and watching year by year as other theories just get destroyed, R+J=L stands the test of time and ANY evidence, factual or hypothetical, you can throw at it.

Look at how many hoops you have to jump through to make Dany being their child work? You have to, from the very jump, ignore the fact that it's not even hinted, alluded, or even momentarily considered that she was born anywhere other than Dragonstone.

Everything in this series that isn't 100% valid already has some other rumor or evidence or belief against it.

Please show me a SINGLE instance of Dany not being born on Dragonstone being questioned.

Because all you have is conjecture based on nothing in the text. THAT'S what's wrong with this.

The first bolded......because it's the curve ball. You're not supposed to see it coming. How exciting is a book if you can predict everything that's gonna happen. Come on. Even Harry Potter, a children's book, flipped everything on its head by the last book but, it's impossible in a series like ASOIAF?

The second bolded......why does Ned have a dream about Lyanna and say he's failed his sister after hearing about Robert's plans of murdering Dany. Please answer this. This makes no sense seeing as Jon is safe as The Wall. Please answer this.

 

[The Blind Man]

As people have mentioned, there's a REASON R+J=L is damn near universally accepted. If you've just gotten into the series in the last few years the idea that all sorts of other shyt is every bit as likely makes sense, but for people who have been reading these books for 10+ years, and all the discussions, the analysis, re-readings, and watching year by year as other theories just get destroyed, R+J=L stands the test of time and ANY evidence, factual or hypothetical, you can throw at it.

Look at how many hoops you have to jump through to make Dany being their child work? You have to, from the very jump, ignore the fact that it's not even hinted, alluded, or even momentarily considered that she was born anywhere other than Dragonstone.

@Don Rhymus is about the Sparrow Life for real,

no room for discussion. we have had the text longer, we know you dont, every other theory (to something still unknown) gets destroyed. No evidence. We have evidence but dont use the evidence just direct you to more people who share our beliefs.

 

[dennis roadman]

What if I told you that in real life I actually am kind of a Rhaegar stan?























SIKE





Howland Reed, Arthur Dayne, Bran The Builder, The Nights King, Ser Baldric the Cunning >>>>> Rhaegar L.

howland reed and the sword of the morning are central figures in rhaegar's legend, bran the builder is the ancestor of his wife, and the night's king set the precedent for violent simping that rhaegar one-upped by not just giving up command of the wall, but of the entire 7 kingdoms

ser baldric cool too

edit: no one asked you if you were a rhaegar stan, your plush interior belies your failure to be part of #rhaegarset

 

[Adam3000]

In the past I have always ignored the "Hodor = The Great Other" chatter because I thought it was some sort of joke referring to the actual character Hodor. I didn't realize that it meant that "Hodor" was the actual name of the Great Other

But with some new recent discussion on reddit about it I gave it a chance and now I'm like

To those unfamiliar with the theory, it stems from the fact that in Norse mythology the god of winter has a similar name:

Höðr (also written Hodhr, Hothr, Hothur, Hoder, Hodur, Hodor) is a blind god in Norse mythology. He is associated as the god of winter. He was often misled and manipulated by Loki, and accidentally kills his brother Baldr by throwing a shaft of mistletoe, whose death is believed to be the beginning of Ragnarok.

Melisandre says about the Great Other (the counterpart to R'hollor) "the name that must never be spoken"

The theory is that the character Hodor (real name Walder) stumbled upon something in the Winterfell crypts, that thing possibly being an avatar of the Great Other that is locked in the crypts via blood magic. Walder was so destroyed by this incident that he can only speak the name of the being that scarred him.

This theory would explain the cause of the character Hodor's oddity, it would explain the repeated saying "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" (due to the blood magic of locking up the Great Other), and it would explain the castle name Winterfell (the place where Winter fell that ended the long night and the Great Other was defeated).

There is more to it, but the reason this theory is being reinvigorated is because GRRM appears to have said that we will learn of the character Hodor's reason for only being able to say Hodor:
http://grrm.livejournal.com/420202.html?thread=21152618#t21152618


You can read more in depth about the theory with good discussion here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/32nlpv/spoilers_all_the_importance_of_winterfell_and_a/
and here
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/32p8bz/spoilers_all_grrm_says_we_will_know_the_cause_of/

 

[dennis roadman]

fukk it, i'm in. hodor theory sounds certified.

but this isn't just a subplot to throw fans a bone, this has to play into the story at large.

 

[FatherSimp]

and the night's king set the precedent for violent simping that rhaegar one-upped by not just giving up command of the wall, but of the entire 7 kingdoms

 

[Chris Cool]

never really thought about hodor like that.

 

[The Watcher]

Young god Bran has been warging the mother fukking Great Other this whole time.

And I've been thinking Hodor got zapped by lightening and has been trying to say his name.

 

[yeahisaidit]

Hodor being warged by the Great Other

GRRM needs to finish!!!

 

[dennis roadman]

im sure this has been discussed before i joined this thread, but anyone reading any other fantasy series of the same tone?

i just started The Black Company, pretty dope so far. doesnt have the high politics, more in like AFFC in terms of relating to those with little to no power

also copped memory, sorrow, and thorn series by tad williams. any recommendations welcome

 

[KatieGotAzzHairs]

im sure this has been discussed before i joined this thread, but anyone reading any other fantasy series of the same tone?

i just started The Black Company, pretty dope so far. doesnt have the high politics, more in like AFFC in terms of relating to those with little to no power

also copped memory, sorrow, and thorn series by tad williams. any recommendations welcome

How is the black company in terms of the fantasy/magic element? I'd like to read something that's strong on that sort of magical thing. ASOIAF doesn't actually do it for me in that department to be honest.

Edit! That Hodor thing is really interesting. Also interesting is the thing about Ragnarok, which in norse mythology is basically a giant ass fight in which many key figures (gods, demons, and beasts alike) meet their end and the nine realms come to a violent end. I believe a new world/realm is born anew after all the fighting is done.