A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[The Blind Man]

Ned didn't live long enough to miss Jon. And his whole time in King's Landing, he had a lot more to worry about than whether he gets to tell Jon who is mother is.

Exactly!

He isn't worried about Jon. So when he dreams of the tower if joy and references the "promise" multiple times who is he thinking of?

Whilst awaiting his death sentence he doesn't worry about Jon he thinks of the broken promise.

If the promise is to keep Jon a secret and only Ned knows, Ned getting killed means NO ONE will every find out. He doesn't think "well at least I kept my promise"

No he is thinking he failed, not as a father, for breaking his promise.

I have no problem with the R+L = J. I rejected this idea on this very board long but changed my opinion based on things put forward. There is evidence to support that at least one of the Stark bros is his pops more than likely Ned.

I am interested in good reasons why this couldn't be the case. So far there isn't much coming forward.

 

[beanz]

According to who? All Dany knows is what her brother tells her.

So Ned tells the whole world he is Jons pops and he is lying.

But viserys is telling the truth about something no one else has corroborated.

Okay.

its mentioned by stannis too and even varys i believe about stannis letting "viserys and the babe" escape. so there was a baby born on dragonstone who escaped with viserys and their mother.

i actually think it would be a pretty cool twist if it turns out to be that dany is rhaegar and lyanna's baby but i just cant see it in the face of so much r+l=j proof. we could be wrong tho.

i just want to know already

 

[The Blind Man]

its mentioned by stannis too and even varys i believe about stannis letting "viserys and the babe" escape. so there was a baby born on dragonstone who escaped with viserys and their mother.

i actually think it would be a pretty cool twist if it turns out to be that dany is rhaegar and lyanna's baby but i just cant see it in the face of so much r+l=j proof. we could be wrong tho.

i just want to know already

The "babe" smuggled out with viserys was Aegon, we know that.

Dany is told by Viserys she was born on dragonstone.

Dany could've been taken to dragonstone after Ned found her at the tower of joy, again logistically that is a better fit than the other theory.

The amount of things within the books I missed is astounding but obvious when pointed out

For example, Qyburn, Oberyn the witch who Dany sacrificed were all trained by the same Maester. Trained in the Dark arts. All part of a colossal Dornish plot.

Oberyn had already administered a very slow working poison to Tywin, a poison already described as leaving the victim severely constipated. When Tyrion finds Tywin he has been on the toilet so long the whore had fallen asleep, only when dead does he shyt, the smell this causes is described in detail.

There's a lot more. I always thought I knew the books. I was wrong. The theories could be of course wrong but a lot are back up by the detail in the books often overlooked.

 

[detroitwalt]

Maybe it's Westeros. org overreacting, but it sounds like some bullshyt goes down in episode 4.

You need to watch that episode breh

According to who? All Dany knows is what her brother tells her.

So Ned tells the whole world he is Jons pops and he is lying.

But viserys is telling the truth about something no one else has corroborated.

Okay.

I can't debate you on what's in the books because my book knowledge isn't that deep. Her backstory says Ser Derry was the one keeping her and her brother safe for a while. That's from the fire and ice wiki. You mentioned her memory of lemons trees in one of your earlier posts so I had to do some digging and found this to be a reasonable explanation for that

So there are lemon trees but ONLY in the courtyards of the mighty. This narrows down the potential venue of the House with the Red Door, in these subtle few words from AFFC.

Dr. Pepper's idea noted that the most likely candidate is the Sealord's Palace. He oversaw the Targ-Dorne marriage pact - and perhaps this was signed at the House with the Red Door. There's nobody mightier than the Sealord. And lemon trees are exclusive to Dorne in the books - the tree itself would be a sly wink to the Dorne-Targ-Sealord occurance.

That seems to be the best fit for the mystery, the most plausible here. Darry took Dany and Vis to the Sealords Palace to live, and they had to leave when the Sealord died perhaps, as 'knives come out then'.

It's all theory tho so nothing is truly answered but it is entertaining to discuss

Exactly!

He isn't worried about Jon. So when he dreams of the tower if joy and references the "promise" multiple times who is he thinking of?

Whilst awaiting his death sentence he doesn't worry about Jon he thinks of the broken promise.

If the promise is to keep Jon a secret and only Ned knows, Ned getting killed means NO ONE will every find out. He doesn't think "well at least I kept my promise"

No he is thinking he failed, not as a father, for breaking his promise.

I have no problem with the R+L = J. I rejected this idea on this very board long but changed my opinion based on things put forward. There is evidence to support that at least one of the Stark bros is his pops more than likely Ned.

I am interested in good reasons why this couldn't be the case. So far there isn't much coming forward.

When I said Ned had other stuff to worry about besides Jon, I was referring to A-his main reason for going which was to find out who killed Jon Arryn, then Cat snuck into KL, then the shyt popped with Jamie after Cat took Tyrion, and so on. I didn't say it as if he didn't care about Jon, just that he had more pressing matters at hand.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Howland Reed know as well?

 

[dennis roadman]

For example, Qyburn, Oberyn the witch who Dany sacrificed were all trained by the same Maester. Trained in the Dark arts. All part of a colossal Dornish plot.

im aware of the link between them obviously, and the poising on tywin, but what's the dornish plot, especially as it relates to qyburn? he's infiltrating the lannisters to finish what oberyn started?

 

[Adam3000]

Preston Jacobs stans

 

[Killakidkano]

Preston Jacobs stans

Whos Preston Jacobs?

 

[Adam3000]

Whos Preston Jacobs?

The guy behind these theories that The Blind Man keeps talking about

His youtube videos are full of retarded leaps of logic, extreme reaches, and confirmation bias.

His youtube Asoiaf videos were among the most popular on the net, but a 10 second google search can pull up old threads from reddit or westeros.org that have plenty of evidence to disprove them.

 

[Killakidkano]

The guy behind these theories that The Blind Man keeps talking about

His youtube videos are full of retarded leaps of logic, extreme reaches, and confirmation bias.

His youtube Asoiaf videos were among the most popular on the net, but a 10 second google search can pull up old threads from reddit or westeros.org that have plenty of evidence to disprove them.

Looked at his page was the R+L = D theory from his Tower of Joy videos?

 

[Chris Cool]

The "babe" smuggled out with viserys was Aegon, we know that.

Dany is told by Viserys she was born on dragonstone.

Dany could've been taken to dragonstone after Ned found her at the tower of joy, again logistically that is a better fit than the other theory.

The amount of things within the books I missed is astounding but obvious when pointed out

For example, Qyburn, Oberyn the witch who Dany sacrificed were all trained by the same Maester. Trained in the Dark arts. All part of a colossal Dornish plot.

Oberyn had already administered a very slow working poison to Tywin, a poison already described as leaving the victim severely constipated. When Tyrion finds Tywin he has been on the toilet so long the whore had fallen asleep, only when dead does he shyt, the smell this causes is described in detail.

There's a lot more. I always thought I knew the books. I was wrong. The theories could be of course wrong but a lot are back up by the detail in the books often overlooked.

you need to reread bruh. the babe smuggled out with viserys is danerys. "aegon" was smuggled out of kings landing by varys. him being smuggled out with viserys makes no sense. Again danerys want born when the tower shyt went down. Ned tells Ser Arthur Dayne that Ser William Darry fled to dragonstone with the queen (who was pregnant with danerys) and viserys. queen gives birth and dies, William Dayne smuggles viserys and danerys out of the 7 kingdoms to the pave with the red door. Danny actually had memories of William Dayne, that's not something viserys told her.

 

[Chris Cool]

regarding the lemon tree, here's something interesting i found on reddit.


"I am reading GRRM's "Quartet," which contains "Blood of the Dragon," which are Dany's chapters in AGOT all combined into a novella. On page 386 of the book, it says that:

"That was when they lived in Tyrosh, in the big house with the red door. Dany had slept in her own room there, with a lemon tree outside her window." A couple lines down, it goes on to say,

"They had wandered since then, from Tyrosh to Myr, from Myr to Braavos..."

This sequence of Dany living in Tyrosh and wandering is opposite to what is stated in AGOT. AGOT says they were living in Braavos, so this is just a simple editing change. "

 

[Adam3000]

Looked at his page was the R+L = D theory from his Tower of Joy videos?

Yeah

 

[The Blind Man]

I can't debate you on what's in the books because my book knowledge isn't that deep. Her backstory says Ser Derry was the one keeping her and her brother safe for a while. That's from the fire and ice wiki. You mentioned her memory of lemons trees in one of your earlier posts so I had to do some digging and found this to be a reasonable explanation for that


It's all theory tho so nothing is truly answered but it is entertaining to discuss

When I said Ned had other stuff to worry about besides Jon, I was referring to A-his main reason for going which was to find out who killed Jon Arryn, then Cat snuck into KL, then the shyt popped with Jamie after Cat took Tyrion, and so on. I didn't say it as if he didn't care about Jon, just that he had more pressing matters at hand.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Howland Reed know as well?

Props on the lemon tree info breh!

Okay so for any R + L = J theorists.

Anyone who wholly accepts this is fact could you please answer simple questions?

This is a real deadly secret right. Well according to Ned it is.

Everyone thinks Jon is Neds, they just dont know who his mum is.

That is not unusual, do we know Gendry's mums name. No, "she worked in an alehouse", Do we know the name of Ramseys ma dukes. No. "worked in a mill". According to the gospel Westeros @ Adam3000.

No big shocks at not knowing the name of Jons mum, it really isnt a mystery. We only know Edric Storms ma dukes cos Stannis caught Robert fukking her, plus she was a noblewoman.

So my main question(s) is how does Ned thinking about Lyanna and The Tower Of Joy at the specific times mentioned in the book relate to Jon?

How does "the promise" relate to Jon? How would anyone ever find out about Jon being a Targ? How could that be proved by anyone?

 

[Adam3000]

Props on the lemon tree info breh!

Okay so for any R + L = J theorists.

Anyone who wholly accepts this is fact could you please answer simple questions?

This is a real deadly secret right. Well according to Ned it is.

Everyone thinks Jon is Neds, they just dont know who his mum is.

That is not unusual, do we know Gendry's mums name. No, "she worked in an alehouse", Do we know the name of Ramseys ma dukes. No. "worked in a mill". According to the gospel Westeros @ Adam3000.

No big shocks at not knowing the name of Jons mum, it really isnt a mystery. We only know Edric Storms ma dukes cos Stannis caught Robert fukking her, plus she was a noblewoman.

So my main question(s) is how does Ned thinking about Lyanna and The Tower Of Joy at the specific times mentioned in the book relate to Jon?

How does "the promise" relate to Jon? How would anyone ever find out about Jon being a Targ? How could that be proved by anyone?

On my phone so I'm not gonna bother going in depth, but your questions have obvious answers

The "promise" is for Ned to raise Jon in secrecy to save him from possible execution at the hands of Robert

"How could it be proved by anyone" there is another person alive in Westeros who was there, not to mention a little kid that can see the past through trees

I'm not going to entertain any Preston Jacobs trash any further. Westeros.org has all the discussion threads you need

 

[The Blind Man]

you need to reread bruh. the babe smuggled out with viserys is danerys. "aegon" was smuggled out of kings landing by varys. him being smuggled out with viserys makes no sense. Again danerys want born when the tower shyt went down. Ned tells Ser Arthur Dayne that Ser William Darry fled to dragonstone with the queen (who was pregnant with danerys) and viserys. queen gives birth and dies, William Dayne smuggles viserys and danerys out of the 7 kingdoms to the pave with the red door. Danny actually had memories of William Dayne, that's not something viserys told her.

No doubt.

We know Dany was smuggled out of Dragonstone, doesnt mean she was born there though does it? So it allows for her memories of Dayne. He lived with the kids for a few years. Oberyn visited them.

How do we know Dany was born there?