A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[NobodyReally]

Have you all read the Mercy/Arya chapter from Winds Of Winter that was released a while back. Had Arya on some shyt. Also Arya had a "face" on and was playing a part in a mummers play which was satire on the "War of The 5 Kings", it looks like it was written a few years ago but could be more recent, and read to me and like GRRM was taking shots at the show.

That would be sweet. I honestly think he loathes the show, but is putting on a good face for the exposure it's giving his books. Whenever he and the show writers are on a panel, you can just feel the tension coming off of him in their direction, and he's cut them off a few times in mid-sentence like their opinion on the story doesn't really matter.

 

[The Blind Man]

thats the only other theory about jon's parentage that has at least a chance at being the truth. im still like 99.9% sure jon is rhaegar and lyanna's kid because of the house if the undying prophecy of a "blue rose growing at the wall".

the vision kinda back ups the theory I put though.

She see's the Mad King, Rhaegar and Drogo.

Her fathers father, her father and the father of her son.

Plus a clue on her real mother, the flower.

Kinda makes more sense than a vision about Jon's parents.

 

[beanz]

the vision kinda back ups the theory I put though.

She see's the Mad King, Rhaegar and Drogo.

Her fathers father, her father and the father of her son.

Plus a clue on her real mother, the flower.

Kinda makes more sense than a vision about Jon's parents.

i could see that

there are still other things though

 

[beanz]

the vision kinda back ups the theory I put though.

She see's the Mad King, Rhaegar and Drogo.

Her fathers father, her father and the father of her son.

Plus a clue on her real mother, the flower.

Kinda makes more sense than a vision about Jon's parents.

besides if brandon + ashara really equaled jon, there would be no reason for ned to hide him from robert to the point where he dishonors his own name.

 

[The Blind Man]

besides if brandon + ashara really equaled jon, there would be no reason for ned to hide him from robert to the point where he dishonors his own name.

Good point.

Ned doesnt hide Jon from Robert though, he just doesnt entertain small talk about his baby mother.

The flaw in that for me if that he seeds Ashara up before his brother dies why hide it? Brandon was supposed to wed Cat. It could be that he loved Ashara, who killed herself.

So he either doesn't lie, and/or will not free himself from the lie by snitching on his brother.

Or dishonoring both the name of the dead women he loved or the mother of his northern children. This ties in with Neds character and involve being honorable on all counts

Another indicator often overlooked are the Direwolf pups they found, who are all siblings, for all the Stark siblings, aint no cousins of the Starks running about with Direwolves.

We know Ned is haunted by the promise of protecting a child and feeling he failed, how can this have anything to do with Jon,??

Ned isnt worried about Jon at all, defo no where near enough to be haunted in the way he clearly is in the first book. So it doesnt make sense that Jon is Lyanna's boy. Even if Jon is Brandons which I also doubt, Ned cosigned for Jon to go make a lifelong pledge to Nights Watch with his bad ass First Ranger Uncle, so is just moving from one Uncle to a next.

Jon is Neds son, Ned aint losing no sleep over Jon. Ned raised Jon, at Wintefell. The kid is about that Winter Life Jon can look after his self, oh yeah and has his own fukkin Direwolf.

But if Dany is his niece, think about it. He thinks of the promise he made to Lyanna when in the crypt with Robert, on the way to Kings Landing and more than once haunted by the whole thing whilst at Kings Landing, especially after the big argument with Robert and the council over killing Dany.

 

[Chris Cool]

do we really know the he's haunted by the promise of "protecting"a child? i feel he's haunted by the promise of keeping a secret (about jon). the Danny shyt wasn't out of the ordinary, he didn't like killing kids period Also when varys mentions him taking black he immediately thinks of jon and feels like shyt.

i can't see ned having any kids out of wedlock, honor means too much to him.

 

[The Blind Man]

do we really know the he's haunted by the promise of "protecting"a child? i feel he's haunted by the promise of keeping a secret (about jon). the Danny shyt wasn't out of the ordinary, he didn't like killing kids period Also when varys mentions him taking black he immediately thinks of jon and feels like shyt.

i can't see ned having any kids out of wedlock, honor means too much to him.

in the dungeon he dreams of "blood and broken promises"

if the promise is to keep Jons parents a secret, he did it, no one thinks any different. He doesnt suddenley think he has to go to Jon at the Wall.

You cant see it maybe, but Ashara was a super fine Dornish bird, Ned is too shy to even speak to her.

Robb breaks his honour for an exotic woman, an obvious parallel.

 

[Chris Cool]

Another thing, I was converted to the Rhaegar - Lyanna - Jon scenerio, which has long been a fan theory, I've always suspected it was too easy tho and expected GRRM to throw a curve in there.

Well my homie put me on game, Its been a long time since I read the source material and I've forgotten so much of the details easily glossed over when enthralled with all the major shyt that goes on. But she hit me with some shyt that seems plausible and can either be backed up by the source or ambiguous at best and some of these theories have made me go back to the drawing board.

Could Rhaegar and Lyanna have fathered Dany? And could Jon have been fathered by Brandon/Ned & Ashara Dayne from Dorne. This would give both Jon and Dany the much lauded Fire and Ice Lineage.

We know Ashara Dayne was fine as fukk, even put Rhaegars dornish wife to shame and had Barrington "broader than broadway" Selmy simped up. She danced with both Stark brothers at the tourney She was "dishonored" at the infamous Harrenhal tourney and someone put a seed in her. Selmy believes she gave birth to a still born girl and committed suicide.
This was before Ned was wed to Catelyn so couldnt have dishonored wifey thus keeping his honor intact. If it was his bro, who was promised to Cat, but was killed in the rebellion, did he protect his big bros honor and claim Jon. Or was it some Maury shyt. both Stark bros laid the pipe and know one knows who the daddy is.....

The theory isnt solid but there are truths in there, No way could Ned have known Lyannas baby was gonna look like a Stark to pass "it" off as his own, he couldnt rock up at Winterfell with some platinum haired purple eyed baby. How he got Dany out of there is of course like much of this a mystery but we got Wargs and Dragons so theres alot of things possible plus Danys history is a mess with contradictions and memories that dont add up, her having memories growing up in Bravos but memories of surroundings and a lemon tree, that Bravos doesnt have.

Just saying...

Jon was born after Robb.

and dany want even born yet when all that shyt was going on.

 

[The Watcher]

R + L = J is the only true answer.

When D&D came to GRRM asking to adapt his books for HBO and were talking about what huge fans they were of the books, GRRM asked them one question to prove it - who are Jon Snow's parents (or maybe just mother, I can't recall the exact words from the interview but it's google worthy if anyone really cares)?

They both got the answer right.

Since R + L = J is the most obvious answer because it was all but spelled out in the first book, there's no way in my mind they answered any other way.

Spoiler: There's this too...

from the show

 

[The Blind Man]

Jon was born after Robb.

and dany want even born yet when all that shyt was going on.

Robb and Jon are both 14 at the start of the books.

If Ned puts a seed into Ashara at the Harrenhal Tourney and picks him up during the rebellion. he only has to pass Jon as being 3 months younger than Robb.

All we know about Dany's origins is what her "brother" tells her which appears to false. She lived in Bravos, in the "house with the red door" and remember runninng in grass and the lemon tree outside her window. This doesnt fit with Bravos,

 

[The Blind Man]

R + L = J is the only true answer.

When D&D came to GRRM asking to adapt his books for HBO and were talking about what huge fans they were of the books, GRRM asked them one question to prove it - who are Jon Snow's parents (or maybe just mother, I can't recall the exact words from the interview but it's google worthy if anyone really cares)?

They both got the answer right.

Since R + L = J is the most obvious answer because it was all but spelled out in the first book, there's no way in my mind they answered any other way.

There are tons of clues regarding Danys real parents and Neds promise to Lyanna having nothing to do with Jon. The logistics alone make it very difficult and more unlikely that R + L = J, something that people are skipping over, timelines and geography play a part.

Remember Ned happily sends Jon to wall. Again if the promise was about Jon, well the secret is safe, everyone knows Jon as a b*stard, he is constantly reminded of it, no one at the wall gives a shyt aout R + L = J. So I would say job well done by Ned.

But this is clearly not the case, he is having nightmares about the promise, But never once mentions worrying about Jon or sending for Jon or going to the Wall to see Jon.

I am more interested in people disproving the theory rather than people using a red herring consensus as proof the theory is wrong,

 

[detroitwalt]

Could Rhaegar and Lyanna have fathered Dany?

Dany was born on Dragonstone to Rhaella.

 

[detroitwalt]

But this is clearly not the case, he is having nightmares about the promise, But never once mentions worrying about Jon or sending for Jon or going to the Wall to see Jon.

Ned didn't live long enough to miss Jon. And his whole time in King's Landing, he had a lot more to worry about than whether he gets to tell Jon who is mother is.

 

[TKOK]

Maybe it's Westeros. org overreacting, but it sounds like some bullshyt goes down in episode 4.

 

[The Blind Man]

Dany was born on Dragonstone to Rhaella.

According to who? All Dany knows is what her brother tells her.

So Ned tells the whole world he is Jons pops and he is lying.

But viserys is telling the truth about something no one else has corroborated.

Okay.