A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[beanz]

if we dont get aegon or jon connington this season im gonna be dissapointed as fukk. im hoping there isnt any casting news on them because they are doing everything they can to keep the surprise intact for tv ppl. if they have an actor come out and say "im playing jon connington" u already know people gonna be spoiling themselves.

 

[Microfracture]

How are they cutting Arianne? Individually she's more important than any of the Sand Snakes. Huge political player they're leaving out especially since Doran never leaves Dorne

 

[Diunx]

I'm starting to wrap up ADWD. What are some similar style novels that I can pick up when I'm finished? I'm hooked on the GRRM writing style right now.

I've been thinking about picking up Dune.

The Malazan series, I also like The King Killer Chronicles but they aren't anything alike ASOIF unless waiting an eternity for the next book counts.

 

[Adam3000]

How are they cutting Arianne? Individually she's more important than any of the Sand Snakes. Huge political player they're leaving out especially since Doran never leaves Dorne

3 part answer

1--Arianne may be important, but her story seems to be able to be worked around. Her main use in the story so far is the Queen Myrcella plot and the reveal of Doran's master plan. Both of these can easily be accomplished without her with a few simple re-writes. The next bit of importance for her is potentially bringing Dorne into the fold with Aegon. This is maybe a bit trickier to write around since marriage can no longer be involved, but obviously the writers have a plan.

2--The writers know the path from here until the end for every character. We do not. We can assume that Arianne is incredibly important, but much like Quentyn she may not be anything more than a vehicle for driving Dorne's alliances. On the other hand, the Sand Snakes don't appear as important yet, but they are about to be positioned in places of power throughout Westeros in the next book so they may end up having more influence on the story than Arianne does. With all these major changes, we have to accept the fact that the writers know how it ends and all our preconceived notions about how the story might play out carry far less weight than their direct knowledge.

3--

I was leaving Comic-con today around 2:00 and surprisingly walked into an outdoor area where Martin was doing a question and answer panel across the street from the convention center. There were about 150 people crowded around a small stage. Most questions were about the TV show and writing philosophies, but at the end he dropped a small nugget. The moderator asked him if he could give us any tiny hint about the next season of the TV show. He responded by saying the Martell family will have a larger role and we will learn about the Sand Snakes. He then said we will also see a lot of the Sand Snakes in TWOW. I don't think this is a major surprise, but I thought it was noteworthy that he confirmed this.

For the record, Arianne is not confirmed to be cut. But all signs point to it.

 

[ghostwriterx]

3 part answer

1--Arianne may be important, but her story seems to be able to be worked around. Her main use in the story so far is the Queen Myrcella plot and the reveal of Doran's master plan. Both of these can easily be accomplished without her with a few simple re-writes. The next bit of importance for her is potentially bringing Dorne into the fold with Aegon. This is maybe a bit trickier to write around since marriage can no longer be involved, but obviously the writers have a plan.

2--The writers know the path from here until the end for every character. We do not. We can assume that Arianne is incredibly important, but much like Quentyn she may not be anything more than a vehicle for driving Dorne's alliances. On the other hand, the Sand Snakes don't appear as important yet, but they are about to be positioned in places of power throughout Westeros in the next book so they may end up having more influence on the story than Arianne does. With all these major changes, we have to accept the fact that the writers know how it ends and all our preconceived notions about how the story might play out carry far less weight than their direct knowledge.

3--


For the record, Arianne is not confirmed to be cut. But all signs point to it.

I wonder how much they really know, GRRM has said they have an idea of how the overall story ends, but I doubt they know specifics on every character, hell I'm not sure GRRM knows all the specifics yet.

 

[Microfracture]

3 part answer

1--Arianne may be important, but her story seems to be able to be worked around. Her main use in the story so far is the Queen Myrcella plot and the reveal of Doran's master plan. Both of these can easily be accomplished without her with a few simple re-writes. The next bit of importance for her is potentially bringing Dorne into the fold with Aegon. This is maybe a bit trickier to write around since marriage can no longer be involved, but obviously the writers have a plan.

2--The writers know the path from here until the end for every character. We do not. We can assume that Arianne is incredibly important, but much like Quentyn she may not be anything more than a vehicle for driving Dorne's alliances. On the other hand, the Sand Snakes don't appear as important yet, but they are about to be positioned in places of power throughout Westeros in the next book so they may end up having more influence on the story than Arianne does. With all these major changes, we have to accept the fact that the writers know how it ends and all our preconceived notions about how the story might play out carry far less weight than their direct knowledge.

3--


For the record, Arianne is not confirmed to be cut. But all signs point to it.

They've gotten away with cutting or merging characters and storylines to this point so I'm going to trust them with cutting Arianne. She just seemed like she was going to be a major player for Dorne and sort of a ringleader for the Sand Snakes by the end of AFFC. Then we got that chapter from TWOW with her slowly carrying out the Dornish plan.

 

[fact]

Yeah, cause thats a real stretch

Show is on par through 4 seasons with almost any show ever made. The Wire and Lost were probably better through 4, but Lost is irrelevant now and The Wire fell off a cliff in season 5. GOAT contender Breaking Bad wasn't this good through 4 seasons. So explain what is crazy here

I think its in the running.
I would make an argument for Deadwood being up there too. That shyt got gut too short, that ensemble cast, and the acting

 

[Adam3000]

I wonder how much they really know, GRRM has said they have an idea of how the overall story ends, but I doubt they know specifics on every character, hell I'm not sure GRRM knows all the specifics yet.

I think that before last year they just kind of knew the major plot points to ultimately end the characters arcs

But I read an interview that last year they sat down with GRRM and mapped out the paths for all the major characters so they could build an outline for the show

GRRM doesn't use detailed outlines in his writing, he just has certain plot points that he knows he is going to reach along the way. The journey to get there is built as he goes. So the type of stuff that he would be able to tell them is something like:

Dany joins back with the Dothraki ---> She gathers all the forces and sails back to Westeros ---> She battles Aegon for control of the Iron Throne --->She takes the throne as the Others are battling southward --->Dragon vs. Others battle ---> Dies in battle after being sacrificed by Jon Snow to form Lightbringer

But then all the details in between there....her encounters, her locations, her stops, they are made up along the way.

So Seasons 6 and 7 are going to be drastically different from the books, there doesn't seem any doubt about that. But the major plot moments for the characters should be close to the same.

 

[FatherSimp]

Dany joins back with the Dothraki ---> She gathers all the forces and sails back to Westeros ---> She battles Aegon for control of the Iron Throne --->She takes the throne as the Others are battling southward --->Dragon vs. Others battle ---> Dies in battle after being sacrificed by Jon Snow to form Lightbringer

If that really happens though

 

[Adam3000]

If that really happens though

It would be cool but my ultimate wish for Dany is that she takes over the Iron Throne and becomes a psycho conqueror who sees mistrust in everyone due to all of Quaithe's prophecies and orders some sort of mass slaughter, only to have a sword put through her back by Barristan Selmy.

This would be perfect on multiple levels. Daughter of the Mad King thought to have a kind heart. Prophecy being a "cruel mistress" turning a normal girl into a savage (just like Cersei). Barristan seeking Dany to redeem himself only to find that he is now having to battle the same moral choices as when he guarded the Mad King--only this time doing whats right rather than what his duty states, just like his protege Jaime Lannister did.

But its too perfect to be true

 

[Bud Bundy]

Getting Cersei's walk of shame this season

they will be throwing shyt and she will be bald.

And it will prob happen in season 6 not season 5.

 

[Adam3000]

^^^^^Dudes still think they are gonna stretch out this story huh

Penance Walk will be this season
Battle of Meereen will be this season
Battle for Winterfell will be this season
Aegon (if on the show) will take Storm's End this season

Bookmark it, quote me, line up a neg train when I'm wrong. There are only 3 seasons left of this show and 2 monster books to cover on top of what is still left of 2 other monster books (which is the majority of both).

 

[Bud Bundy]

^^^^^Dudes still think they are gonna stretch out this story huh

Penance Walk will be this season
Battle of Meereen will be this season
Battle for Winterfell will be this season
Aegon (if on the show) will take Storm's End this season

Bookmark it, quote me, line up a neg train when I'm wrong. There are only 3 seasons left of this show and 2 monster books to cover on top of what is still left of 2 other monster books (which is the majority of both).

You were pretty sure about that Paste theory of yours.

They will drag it out because I see season 5 as Cersi and Jamie vs the Martells. But who is to say they even follow that plot in the book. I don't think Leia would do it cause she would have been nude by now.

 

[fact]

^^^^^Dudes still think they are gonna stretch out this story huh

Penance Walk will be this season
Battle of Meereen will be this season
Battle for Winterfell will be this season
Aegon (if on the show) will take Storm's End this season

Bookmark it, quote me, line up a neg train when I'm wrong. There are only 3 seasons left of this show and 2 monster books to cover on top of what is still left of 2 other monster books (which is the majority of both).

You know we dole out that pure unadulterated justice round here, that fukking night is dark and full of terror. We wouldn't even want to do it, but what is just is what is just. (I think your timeline is correct though anyway)

 

[ghostwriterx]

^^^^^Dudes still think they are gonna stretch out this story huh

Penance Walk will be this season
Battle of Meereen will be this season
Battle for Winterfell will be this season
Aegon (if on the show) will take Storm's End this season

Bookmark it, quote me, line up a neg train when I'm wrong. There are only 3 seasons left of this show and 2 monster books to cover on top of what is still left of 2 other monster books (which is the majority of both).

If they cram all of that into next season its going to suck.