A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[TheGreatShowtime]

The Tysha storyarch works for the book, but it wouldn't work for the show. In the books, Tyrion thinks about Tysha but never speaks about her. How would you even portray that in the show? You think the audience will be emotionally invested in a character they've never seen?

I think the show handled it better. I like the idea that Jamie/Tyrion still are fond of each other because they're the only ones there for each other.

 

[beanz]

The Tysha storyarch works for the book, but it wouldn't work for the show. In the books, Tyrion thinks about Tysha but never speaks about her. How would you even portray that in the show? You think the audience will be emotionally invested in a character they've never seen?

I think the show handled it better. I like the idea that Jamie/Tyrion still are fond of each other because they're the only ones there for each other.

nobody has to get emotionally invested in tysha, they only have to see that tyrion was. granted they didnt mention her as much as they should have, but im sure if they would have had jamie and tyrion bring her up in episode 8 instead of that orsen lannister convo, it would have worked. the idea of tyrion and jamie still being close is ok, but if tyrion would have left angry with jamie it would have really drove the point home that tyrion hates his whole family and wants casterly rock. he wouldnt be so hellbent on jumping on danarys side and killing off the lannisters if he still loves jamie.

 

[Jmare007]

I really don't get why they cut out Jaime coming clean about Tysha to Tyrion.
Its like they are still reeling from the backlash of the Jaime/Cersie Sept Sex and don't want to do anything else to make Jaime unlikable to the show fangirls.
But they could have at least had a spiteful and vindictive Shae throw it in Tyrion's face. Maybe say that Tywin told her the truth about Tysha during pillow talk and have her laugh at what a simp Tyrion is for "love" and that could have been what pushed Tyrion over the edge to kill that bytch.

That would've been perfect considering the circumstances

The thing is, the show nevet gave a fukk about shyt like that until recently. It was always on some, look it up yourself to fill in the clues shyt, which is why I loved it. Now they're concerned about confusing people? The show is still great and I'll still watch but they definitely fumbled at the 3 yard line with this. And like it's been said, I've been good with damn near every decision they've made to deviate from the books. shyt, I even had no problem with Brienne fighting The Hound.

shyt should have been 90 mins at least. Also, that Tysha conversation could have EASILY been in place of that bullshyt beetle one Jamie and Tyrion had 2 weeks ago.

I don't think the show was ever about "filling the gaps yourself" when it came to very important stuff. And it's just not confusing people, it's about not building stuff up. You can't just throw big reveals out of nowhere because they wont have the impact they should have and in a lot of cases it will come off as wack

About the bolded, you are completely right. They should've done that for Tysha to mean something on the TV show, but complaining NOW about it is kinda useless. You can't make her a big deal to Tyrion when she really hasn't been one to him in almost 3 seasons.

 

[Jmare007]

nobody has to get emotionally invested in tysha, they only have to see that tyrion was. granted they didnt mention her as much as they should have, but im sure if they would have had jamie and tyrion bring her up in episode 8 instead of that orsen lannister convo, it would have worked. the idea of tyrion and jamie still being close is ok, but if tyrion would have left angry with jamie it would have really drove the point home that tyrion hates his whole family and wants casterly rock. he wouldnt be so hellbent on jumping on danarys side and killing off the lannisters if he still loves jamie.

That's a very good point.

I guess now he's going to Dany because he has nowhere else to go and can't comeback to KL without an army, but that's not nearly as powerful as him wanting revenge on his whole family. I mean, he still wants to destroy Cersei on the show but it's not the same

 

[MidniteJay]

The Tysha storyarch works for the book, but it wouldn't work for the show. In the books, Tyrion thinks about Tysha but never speaks about her. How would you even portray that in the show? You think the audience will be emotionally invested in a character they've never seen?

I think the show handled it better. I like the idea that Jamie/Tyrion still are fond of each other because they're the only ones there for each other.

Uhh, yes he did. One of his big moments was when he mentioned Tysha. Even by name with somber background music and everything...



That scene also gave show watchers much more insight to how much of a dikk Tywin was to Tyrion. With how much anti-Lannisters there are in the show thread they wouldn't have forgotten that scene, and I bet the audience outside of coli remembered that bit too. The reveal that Tywin had Jaime lie about the situation wouldn't have been out of nowhere and it gives Tyrion motive to search for Tywin during his escape.

 

[Jmare007]

Uhh, yes he did. One of his big moments was when he mentioned Tysha. Even by name with somber background music and everything...



That scene also gave show watchers much more insight to how much of a dikk Tywin was to Tyrion. With how much anti-Lannisters there are in the show thread they wouldn't have forgotten that scene, and I bet the audience outside of coli remembered that bit too. The reveal that Tywin had Jaime lie about the situation wouldn't have been out of nowhere and it gives Tyrion motive to search for Tywin during his escape.

That was from Season 1 and before Tyrion fell in love with Shae on the show. You honestly believe that after 3 years of barely mentioning Tysha and the show focusing solely on Shae/Tyrion, mentioning her last night would've really meant something to TV watchers? I don't at least.

Still, that doesn't excuse the fact that they handled Tyrion's scape and killings VERY poorly. There's a lot of ways they could've done it, hell a couple of posters already gave 2 great ideas, and they just dropped the ball

 

[Type Username Here]

I had to re-watch it because last night I was pissed off about the game. I didn't want judge it while I was pissed off.


Still this morning


fukking Bloodraven looking like

 

[MidniteJay]

That was from Season 1 and before Tyrion fell in love with Shae on the show. You honestly believe that after 3 years of barely mentioning Tysha and the show focusing solely on Shae/Tyrion, mentioning her last night would've really meant something to TV watchers? I don't at least.

Still, that doesn't excuse the fact that they handled Tyrion's scape and killings VERY poorly. There's a lot of ways they could've done it, hell a couple of posters already gave 2 great ideas, and they just dropped the ball

Come on, man.... It was a significant scene in what is considered one of the strongest seasons of the show. The bug crushing scene was long as fukk, it could have had Jaime go back to that story, remind the audience about it and then he reveals that Tywin made him lie, Tyrion flips out. What's the big deal? It doesn't take away from anything and it's actually smarter than how it really went down last night.

 

[statuez]

Arya leaving the Hound to die was the highlight of the episode. Ain't no one can tell me otherwise.

 

[Adam3000]

That was from Season 1 and before Tyrion fell in love with Shae on the show. You honestly believe that after 3 years of barely mentioning Tysha and the show focusing solely on Shae/Tyrion, mentioning her last night would've really meant something to TV watchers? I don't at least.

Still, that doesn't excuse the fact that they handled Tyrion's scape and killings VERY poorly. There's a lot of ways they could've done it, hell a couple of posters already gave 2 great ideas, and they just dropped the ball

This is a terrible defense of the Tysha ommission. First off, it assumes we should accept the 'dumbing down' of certain show elements. Pandering to idiots is a TV executive copout, it doesnt absolve you from criticism. I dont want to watch a dumbed down story there are enough of those on TV.

Secondly, it ignores the simple fact that the Tysha story could have been reintroduced at any point this season. Even as recently as episode 8, in place of Orson Lannister.

 

[Adam3000]

Meng how you gonna let Arya have a 10 minute convo with Sandor and noones coming looking for them Brienne and Pod werent that far away
they mustve heard them. And how did Arya conveniently get a horse?
No Varys egging Tyrion on? Tyrion going all the way uninterrupted to Tywin?
Hodor now a skilled fighter, or was it Bran? So its Theon being the bloody paste and not Jojen, just like I thought.
Bloodraven - completely lame portrayal.

Varys deciding to ride off, why it was Jamie freeing Tyrion, there was no motivation for him to run the way the show pictured it.

Before this episode I felt it was going to be a 9 or 10, now it gets a 3,5. Completely overhyped and deflated.

This shyt shouldnt sniff an emmy.

I feel your anger breh but some of these criticisms are way off base

Brienne and Pod could have been anywhere in those mountains by the time that Arya got back to The Hound. It is a huge area, there is no way that they would have heard that conversation.

Arya has had that horse since episode 1

Tyion got uninterrupted to Tywin because it all took place within the Tower of the Hand, the guards would be outside the doors. Tyrion came in through a secret passage, just like the books.

Hodor is a physical beast, he is just a scared dummy. Bran is able to take over his mind and turn him into a wrecking machine. This isn't the first time he has done it this season.

What are you talking about with Theon and bloody paste? That doesn't even make sense. Jojen dying neither confirms nor denies anything about the Jojen paste theory other than that there won't be Jojen paste on the show. The books can still do whatever they want with it.

Varys decided to ride off because the bells of death tolled and he knew he would be fukked. He helped Tyrion escape and would have been the first person blamed.

 

[Adam3000]

After reading this I'm suspecting that they may cut Lady Stoneheart from the series:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/16/game-of-thrones-why-no-lady-stoneheart/

Truthfully I can accept them leaving her out. It doesn't appear to be a vital part of the endgame, and to me it cheapened the Red Wedding a bit. But still, it would have been entertaining TV.

I just wish they would come out and say "no, no Stoneheart" so the speculation could cease.

 

[raff]

I feel your anger breh but some of these criticisms are way off base

Brienne and Pod could have been anywhere in those mountains by the time that Arya got back to The Hound. It is a huge area, there is no way that they would have heard that conversation.

Arya has had that horse since episode 1

Tyion got uninterrupted to Tywin because it all took place within the Tower of the Hand, the guards would be outside the doors. Tyrion came in through a secret passage, just like the books.

Hodor is a physical beast, he is just a scared dummy. Bran is able to take over his mind and turn him into a wrecking machine. This isn't the first time he has done it this season.

What are you talking about with Theon and bloody paste? That doesn't even make sense. Jojen dying neither confirms nor denies anything about the Jojen paste theory other than that there won't be Jojen paste on the show. The books can still do whatever they want with it.

Varys decided to ride off because the bells of death tolled and he knew he would be fukked. He helped Tyrion escape and would have been the first person blamed.

But the horse had to be put there nearby, can't believe they wouldn't scope out close by. The long hall from where he chocked Shae to the toilet looked like it could have some guards. Hodor was parrying, blocking, thrusting etc., neither Hodor or Bran have that know how.
I never said there wasn't going to be a sacrifice by the weirwood tree, just that you can cross Jojen of the list - wasnt a criticism at all just wanted to put that in the post. Well Varys helped Tyrion escape and was returning to the city so it means he had the confidence to spin that shyt, but after the bells rang he turned back, looked wack/poorly made.

What I do co-sign is the fight itself, had me and Qbeezy doing his thing with Gregor.

 

[FrederickDouglas]

My main problem with this finale is that a lot of the shyt previous seasons built up to is omitted.

Tyrion talking about Tysha in Season 1 was supposed to build up to Tyrion's confrontation with Tywin in Season 4

Beric Dondarrion and the BWB was supposed to build up to LS (which would've made a much better conclusion for this season)

I know the showrunners have talked to GRRM about the future of the series and maybe Tysha and Stoneheart don't play a huge role in the overall conclusion of the story, BUT it's not about the destination, it's about the journey. If you don't include those beloved thematic cues in the journey, some of us might not give a fukk about the end as portrayed by Benioff and Wess

They did drop the ball and if it is because they're focusing more attention on plot developments that will be more relevant by series end, then the show is in danger of losing the intricacies that made it so great in the first place

 

[TheGreatShowtime]

That was from Season 1 and before Tyrion fell in love with Shae on the show. You honestly believe that after 3 years of barely mentioning Tysha and the show focusing solely on Shae/Tyrion, mentioning her last night would've really meant something to TV watchers? I don't at least.

Still, that doesn't excuse the fact that they handled Tyrion's scape and killings VERY poorly. There's a lot of ways they could've done it, hell a couple of posters already gave 2 great ideas, and they just dropped the ball

The thing is, everyone I know who only watches the show & doesn't read the books had the reaction to the Tyrion/Tywin scene. The only people I see complaining are book readers nitpicking details.

I swear, some of y'all act like the show is doing the series a great injustice. The show is great. The books are great. Stop complaining