A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[beanz]

im not "siding" with any lord, im gonna be on my Howland Reed shyt and just hold my nikka Ned down whoever he got problems with, i got problems with

same answer

whatever my liege lord wants to do, im riding out with him.

however if IM the liege lord, it would all depend. how much do i know about how crazy the mad king was? did i know anything about a supposed conspiracy to put rhaegar on the throne? did i feel that brandon stark was out of line? it all really just depends on what information u were fed and by whom.

now if i know the truth about everything that happened, i ride out with king robert, ned and jon arryn.

Alright brehs, say you're a lord of a House that was eating good under the Mad King and then Robert's Rebellion breaks out. You know that the King was crazy and that Stark and Baratheon had legit reasons to raise banners against him.

Who you fighting for?

Mad King?

Stay Neutral? (you're not an overlord/warden so staying neutral might get some other houses angry at you and shyt won't look good once there's a victor)

King Robert?

 

[LurkLurker]

WIll we get FrankenMOuntain though? Some of the more absurd stuff from the book tends to get the bushes treatment on the show. We still don't know if Lady Stoneheart is going to appear. Cold Hands is not looking likely. They even dissed Strong Belwas which still pisses me off.

We don't know that FrankenMountain isn't going to be supremely important though.

ColdHands appears to be a secondary plot device to further Bran's story, same as Strong Belwas. They're both long gone from the story, seeming to have accomplished everything their characters needed to accomplish as secondary plot devices.

Lady Stoneheart, who I think will show up by the end of this season, and FrankenMountain are both ongoing storylines that haven't been resolved yet. We really have no idea how big a role either one of those characters have until the next book comes out. You can't compare ongoing character storylines to resolved character storylines, we don't have the data for all that. And it's the same reason Oblock had to die, to kick off the sand snakes who could be the most important players in the game for all we know at this point.

 

[Arianne Martell]

My reply to @T-K-G from the show thread showing how I would have kept Oberyn alive:

Tyrion's storyline could be slightly changed to his being exonerated through Oberyn winning the trial by combat but knowing that Cersei will have him killed anyway, Jamie and Varys set it up for Tyrion to secretly get out of King's landing without Cersei finding out. The rest of Tyrion's story can play out exactly like in the books from Jaime confessing about Tyrion's first wife not being a whore and that Tywin forced Jamie to lie to Tyrion which leads to Tyrion turning on Jaime to him then finding Shae fukking Tywin and killing his father in a rage thus becoming a wanted man again.

Oberyn could have been shown to have sustained some injuries in the fight with the Mountain that precluded him from killing Tywin himself. Oberyn's character could then become a merged character with his brother from the books. Say Doran dies of some illness and Oberyn becomes the new ruler of Dorne which then makes him have to leave the Small Council and King's Landing in a hurry before he can kill Tywin himself...with season 5 featuring a bumped up presence of Dorne in the show then it becomes very easy to just have all of Prince Doran's storyline from the books be carried out by Oberyn with the excuse for Oberyn not going after the Lannister's himself being because he has accepted the responsibility of the ruler of Dorne and his temper needs to be controlled. So then Oberyn becomes the one plotting against the Lannisters and wanting to align with Dany so she can claim the Iron Throne.

this entire post....

The Doran master plan, setting off the sand snakes for the potential coup, Lil Targ

There is no way Oberyn's character would have come up with Doran's schemes.

I know what you are saying but the stories and links to overhaul the story just to keep Oberyn alive.

 

[T-K-G]

My reply to @T-K-G from the show thread showing how I would have kept Oberyn alive:

Tyrion's storyline could be slightly changed to his being exonerated through Oberyn winning the trial by combat but knowing that Cersei will have him killed anyway, Jamie and Varys set it up for Tyrion to secretly get out of King's landing without Cersei finding out. The rest of Tyrion's story can play out exactly like in the books from Jaime confessing about Tyrion's first wife not being a whore and that Tywin forced Jamie to lie to Tyrion which leads to Tyrion turning on Jaime to him then finding Shae fukking Tywin and killing his father in a rage thus becoming a wanted man again.

Oberyn could have been shown to have sustained some injuries in the fight with the Mountain that precluded him from killing Tywin himself. Oberyn's character could then become a merged character with his brother from the books. Say Doran dies of some illness and Oberyn becomes the new ruler of Dorne which then makes him have to leave the Small Council and King's Landing in a hurry before he can kill Tywin himself...with season 5 featuring a bumped up presence of Dorne in the show then it becomes very easy to just have all of Prince Doran's storyline from the books be carried out by Oberyn with the excuse for Oberyn not going after the Lannister's himself being because he has accepted the responsibility of the ruler of Dorne and his temper needs to be controlled. So then Oberyn becomes the one plotting against the Lannisters and wanting to align with Dany so she can claim the Iron Throne.

this entire post....

The Doran master plan, setting off the sand snakes for the potential coup, Lil Targ

There is no way Oberyn's character would have come up with Doran's schemes.

I know what you are saying but the stories and links to overhaul the story just to keep Oberyn alive.

exactly. nikka wants to change ALL of that, just so he can see Oberyn swag for a few extra scenes

luckily he's not a writer or author cuz that shyt he just came up with

 

[detroitwalt]

How do y'all deal with people that want to be spoiled? My boy called today asking about Tyrion. I just told him Varys helps him escape, left out Tywin and Shae so he can still be surprised.

I had a co-worker that was notorious for asking to be spoiled. I was glad when he got another job lol

 

[T-K-G]

How do y'all deal with people that want to be spoiled? My boy called today asking about Tyrion. I just told him Varys helps him escape, left out Tywin and Shae so he can still be surprised.

I had a co-worker that was notorious for asking to be spoiled. I was glad when he got another job lol

i tell em to read a fukkin book it's crazy how lazy people have gotten, like damn nikka you too lazy to even spoil yourself by lookin up the wiki page or somethin? i know waaay back like last year i was talkin bout how it was hard for me to get through AFFC and i would just read the POV's of the characters i liked, but since then i got the combined version and the read isn't even bad anymore people just lazy as shyt for no good reason, spend hours reading through a rafters thread from beginning to end but can't crack open a good book

 

[Jello Biafra]

this entire post....

The Doran master plan, setting off the sand snakes for the potential coup, Lil Targ

There is no way Oberyn's character would have come up with Doran's schemes.

I know what you are saying but the stories and links to overhaul the story just to keep Oberyn alive.

If you think they are not going to be merging characters and in some cases not even using characters from the book then you are crazy. Its a possibility that Aegon might not ever even be introduced in the show and it is pretty much guaranteed that most of the Sand Snakes will either not be seen at all or shown in the background with no speaking parts while one of them is used as a combo speaking character on the show.
It's only 3 more seasons left, brehs. That's 30 episodes to get through a lot of stuff without introducing a character that does nothing but further complicate an already complicated story.

 

[LurkLurker]

If you think they are not going to be merging characters and in some cases not even using characters from the book then you are crazy. Its a possibility that Aegon might not ever even be introduced in the show and it is pretty much guaranteed that most of the Sand Snakes will either not be seen at all or shown in the background with no speaking parts while one of them is used as a combo speaking character on the show.
It's only 3 more seasons left, brehs. That's 30 episodes to get through a lot of stuff without introducing a character that does nothing but further complicate an already complicated story.

Who says there's a possibility we don't see Aegon? Reddit? Link me to this, I've never heard that before anywhere.

And you don't seem to understand that while Sand Snakes will most definitely be merged and there will be one central one the show hypes, the ones making the decision on who gets merged and who is the central one know the ending to the story. They also knew how important it is to kill off Oblock. They also knew they could cut Cold Hands. You don't know any of these things and are posting emotional because you really dug a certain character, which I get and respect, but coming up with ways to keep Oblock around doesn't make the hurt go away any quicker breh.

 

[Jello Biafra]

Who says there's a possibility we don't see Aegon? Reddit? Link me to this, I've never heard that before anywhere.

And you don't seem to understand that while Sand Snakes will most definitely be merged and there will be one central one the show hypes, the ones making the decision on who gets merged and who is the central one know the ending to the story. They also knew how important it is to kill off Oblock. They also knew they could cut Cold Hands. You don't know any of these things and are posting emotional because you really dug a certain character, which I get and respect, but coming up with ways to keep Oblock around doesn't make the hurt go away any quicker breh.

I'm not emotional about this at all. I was asked how I would have kept Oberyn alive as if it would be some monumental task that could never be done and I responded to that. If anything the emotion is coming from all of you dudes who are acting like I pissed on the King James Bible by daring to posit a change to GRRM's works. Oberyn's dead and I am cool with it. I was just making conversation in the show thread.

 

[Adam3000]

Made the mistake of visiting the sweltering a$$hole of ASOIAF fandom known as Westeros.org

These people bytching about Grey Worm/Missandei like it is some sort of huge divergence from the book. It is an adaptation of a concept that GRRM himself created. Stalwart Shield is an Unsullied who is murdered by the Sons of the Harpy while in a brothel. Dany questions why an Unsullied would be in a brothel, and Grey Worm notes that even eunuchs seek affection and some of them pay the whores just to lay beside them. The show is just fleshing out this concept and involving known characters instead, likely as a way to help add development to 2 people who don't get any solo screen time otherwise. George believes that that is nothing in this world worth writing about other than the conflicts of the human heart, D&D are running with it.

Also, reading Ran & Linda's reviews of the episode is hilarious. I would love to discuss Game of Thrones with almost anyone in person, but if those two were in the room with me I might have to just talk about basketball instead .

"So much was wrong with that episode, not the least the key part, the duel. They thought they knew better - again - and they fukked it up. That's a 2 for me, lowest since the House of the Undying atrocity."


First off, aint nothing wrong with any episode. The show is the show and the books are the books. But of all the things to bytch about, I'm not sure what else was expected from the duel it was one of the most faithful adaptations of anything in the series since Season 1.

 

[Devilinurear]

Do they just take the balls and leave the shaft?

 

[Type Username Here]

Made the mistake of visiting the sweltering @sshole of ASOIAF fandom known as Westeros.org

These people bytching about Grey Worm/Missandei like it is some sort of huge divergence from the book. It is an adaptation of a concept that GRRM himself created. Stalwart Shield is an Unsullied who is murdered by the Sons of the Harpy while in a brothel. Dany questions why an Unsullied would be in a brothel, and Grey Worm notes that even eunuchs seek affection and some of them pay the whores just to lay beside them. The show is just fleshing out this concept and involving known characters instead, likely as a way to help add development to 2 people who don't get any solo screen time otherwise. George believes that that is nothing in this world worth writing about other than the conflicts of the human heart, D&D are running with it.

Also, reading Ran & Linda's reviews of the episode is hilarious. I would love to discuss Game of Thrones with almost anyone in person, but if those two were in the room with me I might have to just talk about basketball instead .

"So much was wrong with that episode, not the least the key part, the duel. They thought they knew better - again - and they fukked it up. That's a 2 for me, lowest since the House of the Undying atrocity."


First off, aint nothing wrong with any episode. The show is the show and the books are the books. But of all the things to bytch about, I'm not sure what else was expected from the duel it was one of the most faithful adaptations of anything in the series since Season 1.

The bytching on there is absolutely nauseating. My god.

 

[jericho]

Made the mistake of visiting the sweltering @sshole of ASOIAF fandom known as Westeros.org

"So much was wrong with that episode, not the least the key part, the duel. They thought they knew better - again - and they fukked it up. That's a 2 for me, lowest since the House of the Undying atrocity."


First off, aint nothing wrong with any episode. The show is the show and the books are the books. But of all the things to bytch about, I'm not sure what else was expected from the duel it was one of the most faithful adaptations of anything in the series since Season 1.

Those people are honestly pathetic. It makes me weep for what that "World of Ice and Fire" book that's coming out later this year might be like. Those two nutjobs supposedly wrote sections of it

 

[Adam3000]

Mentioned earlier in this thread that I thought the Faceless Men had something to do with the Doom of Valyria

I'm 95% convinced now

Re-reading AFFC/ADWD

Arya chapter right after she hides Needle under the steps. The Kindly Man decides to tell her a story of how the Faceless Men came to be. Slaves dug for gold in mines under the 14 volcanoes of Valyria. They prayed to their many gods for relief from their hells. A man who's identity was lost to time came to the realization that they all were praying to one god and that he was god's instrument. He gave the gift of death to the worst suffering of the slaves, and the Faceless Men were born.

Arya responds "He killed the slave? He should have killed the masters!"

The Kindly Man responds "He would bring the gift to them as well...but that is a tale for another day, one best shared with no one"

I interpret the gift to the masters as being the Doom of Valyria, and the tale being shared with no one meaning only those who have officially become no one and been accepted as a Faceless Man will be shared the secret of the Doom

I'm only 1/3rd of the way through my complete AFFC/ADWD combined re-read, so I'm not sure if more is said of this later.

 

[TKOK]

Made the mistake of visiting the sweltering @sshole of ASOIAF fandom known as Westeros.org

These people bytching about Grey Worm/Missandei like it is some sort of huge divergence from the book. It is an adaptation of a concept that GRRM himself created. Stalwart Shield is an Unsullied who is murdered by the Sons of the Harpy while in a brothel. Dany questions why an Unsullied would be in a brothel, and Grey Worm notes that even eunuchs seek affection and some of them pay the whores just to lay beside them. The show is just fleshing out this concept and involving known characters instead, likely as a way to help add development to 2 people who don't get any solo screen time otherwise. George believes that that is nothing in this world worth writing about other than the conflicts of the human heart, D&D are running with it.

Also, reading Ran & Linda's reviews of the episode is hilarious. I would love to discuss Game of Thrones with almost anyone in person, but if those two were in the room with me I might have to just talk about basketball instead .

"So much was wrong with that episode, not the least the key part, the duel. They thought they knew better - again - and they fukked it up. That's a 2 for me, lowest since the House of the Undying atrocity."


First off, aint nothing wrong with any episode. The show is the show and the books are the books. But of all the things to bytch about, I'm not sure what else was expected from the duel it was one of the most faithful adaptations of anything in the series since Season 1.

Yeah some of the bytching is pretty overboard. and this is coming from a guy who post on their fairly regularly during the season.


The only time i bytch about scenes is when they just plain don't make any sense whatsoever. Like the scenes a couple weeks ago where Arya killed rorge, that was a weird scenes cause he just stands there and doesn't do anything.