A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[T-K-G]

does book 5 touch on wat arya was doing in the 4th?

damn I gotta go back to the 4th read the young gawds chapters

 

[Dat Migo]

book 5 has 1 or 2 Arya chapters

 

[T-K-G]

book 5 has 1 or 2 Arya chapters

 

[Dat Migo]

they're gully tho

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

they're gully tho

Not a lot of Arya after ASoS which can only mean that she's going to be important. Probably taking heads.

Same reason we haven't seen Howland Reed (or have we?) - he knows too much about Ned/Jon.

 

[Black Magisterialness]

where is Howland anyway?

 

[The Real]

where is Howland anyway?

Not sure, but I always assumed that the reason the twins showed up was that Howland knew or had predicted the fukkery that was coming to Winterfell and was subtly making sure some things would be taken care of. I have a feeling he will be making a more direct appearance, eventually, though. From what we know about him so far, he has a personal bond with the Starks that goes beyond bannerman loyalty, so it would be out of character for him to be just sitting around alone while all this stuff is going on.

 

[Black Magisterialness]

Not sure, but I always assumed that the reason the twins showed up was that Howland knew or had predicted the fukkery that was coming to Winterfell and was subtly making sure some things would be taken care of. I have a feeling he will be making a more direct appearance, eventually, though. From what we know about him so far, he has a personal bond with the Starks that goes beyond bannerman loyalty, so it would be out of character for him to be just sitting around alone while all this stuff is going on.

bread says he shows up somewhere on the Wall after all this stabbing bytchery is over....




and tells Jon who his REAL parents are and we get the full story of what happened at the Tower of Joy

 

[The Real]

bread says he shows up somewhere on the Wall after all this stabbing bytchery is over....




and tells Jon who his REAL parents are and we get the full story of what happened at the Tower of Joy

Very possible. I think Martin himself already stated that Howland will make an appearance in person at some point.

Another thing I forgot was that his crannogmen are the ones who end up routing the Ironborn at Moat Cailin (even Roose Bolton was wary of crossing that area b/c that territory is well within Reed's reach,) though there's no indication he had any contact with Bolton's men. He has to be planning something, though. He had his only two kids sent to Winterfell as soon as Robb was crowned King, to swear fealty to him (among other things,) so I'm willing to bet he knows a lot about what's going on and is taking advantage of the fact that everyone seems to count him out.

 

[HookersandIceCream]

You know what Stannis

For someone with so much honor. Muthafukka fukked over all the good guys by killing Renly.
Kinslayer is one of the worst things you can be in westeros and he did it without a second thought.

I get it hes been screwed over but he screwed westoros. Renley would actually been a great king. Hes a genuinely nice guy who knows how to play the GOT.

 

[MidniteJay]

You know what Stannis

For someone with so much honor. Muthafukka fukked over all the good guys by killing Renly.
Kinslayer is one of the worst things you can be in westeros and he did it without a second thought.

I get it hes been screwed over but he screwed westoros. Renley would actually been a great king. Hes a genuinely nice guy who knows how to play the GOT.

Another thing about Renly was that he was willing to compromise with Robb Stark.

Stannis was all at Robb Stark taking the North....

I mean gotdamn yo... If all them could have made a truce or something Lannisters would have been deader than dead.



Of course we don't write the story and I'm okay with how things turned out because Book 3 was piff even with all the bad shyt happening to our beloved characters.

 

[Mr. Pink]

Actually the books suggest Stannis doesn't really know his part in the killing of Renly, not consciously anway. He's either in extreme denial or delusional about it. In my opinion it's strongly implied that Melisandre uses her powers on him somehow.
From ACOK:

Her flames do not lie. She saw Renly’s doom as well. On Dragonstone she saw it, and told Selyse. Lord Velaryon and your friend Salladhor Saan would have had me sail against Joffrey, but Melisandre told me that if I went to Storm’s End, I would win the best part of my brother’s power, and she was right.”

For a long time the king did not speak. Then, very softly, he said, “I dream of it sometimes. Of Renly’s dying. A green tent, candles, a woman screaming. And blood.” Stannis looked down at his hands. “I was still abed when he died. Your Devan will tell you. He tried to wake me. Dawn was nigh and my lords were waiting, fretting. I should have been ahorse, armored. I knew Renly would attack at break of day. Devan says I thrashed and cried out, but what does it matter? It was a dream. I was in my tent when Renly died, and when I woke my hands were clean.”
Ser Davos Seaworth could feel his phantom fingertips start to itch. Something is wrong here, the onetime smuggler thought.

Then later in ASOS:

“Maester Cressen was your faithful servant. She slew him, as she killed Ser Cortnay Penrose and your brother Renly.”
“Now you sound a fool,” the king complained. “She saw Renly’s end in the flames, yes, but she had no more part in it than I did. The priestess was with me. Your Devan would tell you so. Ask him, if you doubt me. She would have spared Renly if she could. It was Melisandre who urged me to meet with him, and give him one last chance to amend his treason.

As for Renly, I think he would make a weak king. He was all talk. Virtually everyone except for his butt buddy Loras, Brienne and that fat fool Mace Tyrell had a low opinion of him. They can't all be wrong.

 

[The Real]

Actually the books suggest Stannis doesn't really know his part in the killing of Renly, not consciously anway. He's either in extreme denial or delusional about it. In my opinion it's strongly implied that Melisandre uses her powers on him somehow.
From ACOK:


Then later in ASOS:

As for Renly, I think he would make a weak king. He was all talk. Virtually everyone except for his butt buddy Loras, Brienne and that fat fool Mace Tyrell had a low opinion of him. They can't all be wrong.

I don't remember where, but there are several passages where Stannis feels more explicit guilt about Renly. The dream passages are the result of his connection he has to the shadow- occasionally he experiences what the shadow itself saw when he sleeps. He knows what he did, though- I think what comes off as denial is his attempt to rationalize it.

As for Renly, who else had a truly low opinion of him? There were people who wanted a different king, sure, but I can't recall many people actively disparaging him beyond citing his lack of experience, which gave him some unearned confidence. It seemed mostly like politics to me. The people loved him, he had political experience on the small council and as lord of a large and flourishing territory. There's a reason most of Robert's men chose him over Stannis.

 

[Scottie Drippin]

I don't remember where, but there are several passages where Stannis feels more explicit guilt about Renly. The dream passages are the result of his connection he has to the shadow- occasionally he experiences what the shadow itself saw when he sleeps. He knows what he did, though- I think what comes off as denial is his attempt to rationalize it.

As for Renly, who else had a truly low opinion of him? There were people who wanted a different king, sure, but I can't recall many people actively disparaging him beyond citing his lack of experience, which gave him some unearned confidence. It seemed mostly like politics to me. The people loved him, he had political experience on the small council and as lord of a large and flourishing territory. There's a reason most of Robert's men chose him over Stannis.

Exactly, people not riding with him threw shots at him, but dude had the combined power of the Reach and the Stormlands and was going to link up with the North (and by proxy the Riverlands). For like five minutes Renly was more powerful than any character in the series has been post Robert's death. You can't overlook that. Him winning was inevitable. Dude had just gotten four of the seven kingdoms before Melisandre caught that body. And even with just The Reach and the Stormlands he had the largest standing army. Bottymon Renly was gonna run wild.

 

[MidniteJay]

As for Renly, I think he would make a weak king. He was all talk. Virtually everyone except for his butt buddy Loras, Brienne and that fat fool Mace Tyrell had a low opinion of him. They can't all be wrong.

I don't buy that. Renly ain't no weak leader if he rallied so many important people to his cause. Even Randyll Tarly a Four Star Badass joined Renly's cause. Why would a guy like that follow someone considered to be weak?