A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[Adam3000]

Fam, I had this really eerie feeling when the three kids got under that treeJojen got more and more depressed the closer they got thereJojen stops getting mentioned after a whileThat weirwood paste Bran said it tasted like bloodI don't know, breh

Spoiler

Who says I might not drop three reviews in one day like Gucci does mixtapes?

I got the outlines for all three sitting right here, I'm just lazy

Jojen paste has textual support but I just don't believe it at all

I get why it is a popular theory, but logically it just makes no sense why the Children would need to do that to him to wake Bran's powers. What if Jojen had died along the way? Just doesn't add up.

I think the evidence for it is a classic example of confirmation bias and people need to take a peek at Occum's Razor instead

 

[T-K-G]

Jojen paste has textual support but I just don't believe it at all

I get why it is a popular theory, but logically it just makes no sense why the Children would need to do that to him to wake Bran's powers. What if Jojen had died along the way? Just doesn't add up.

I think the evidence for it is a classic example of confirmation bias and people need to take a peek at Occum's Razor instead

i mean it would go with the theme of people gaining magic after someone dies, we seen it with everyone else and it's looking like the same thing is gonna happen with Jon

so in that regard it makes perfect sense with the story if they can see shyt too then they prolly knew jojen would live long enough to make it there, the same way he prolly foresaw him getting ground into oatmeal

 

[obarth]

Jojen paste has textual support but I just don't believe it at all

I get why it is a popular theory, but logically it just makes no sense why the Children would need to do that to him to wake Bran's powers. What if Jojen had died along the way? Just doesn't add up.

I think the evidence for it is a classic example of confirmation bias and people need to take a peek at Occum's Razor instead

Blood magic(literal blood or death in general) has been shown to be a large part of this series. What if Jojen had died on the way? Great question. If Bran can see past present and future, Bloodraven would have the same ability. Plus Jojen had a habit of saying "today isn't the day I die". He knew when that day was, hence why his increasing depression gave me a weird feeling.

 

[Bud Bundy]

naw I don't think the kids did that jojan. After all the trouble bloodraven went through to get him there.

 

[T-K-G]

naw I don't think the kids did that jojan. After all the trouble bloodraven went through to get him there.

to get Bran there you mean

 

[Bud Bundy]

to get Bran there you mean

yeah but all they had to do was get them to the wall and coldhands would have done the rest. And if Jojan knew he was going to be food why go that far at all?

 

[T-K-G]

yeah but all they had to do was get them to the wall and coldhands would have done the rest. And if Jojan knew he was going to be food why go that far at all?

meera said herself that he was stupid for not trying to fight against fate

“He wants to go home,” Meera told Bran. “He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie.”

people sacrifice themselves everyday b

 

[fact]

yeah but all they had to do was get them to the wall and coldhands would have done the rest. And if Jojan knew he was going to be food why go that far at all?

Jojen's life was pretty much conceded to help Bran along, Jojen knew he was not long for the earth as e knew when he was going to die. Howland and his children are loyal to the Stark clan (Eddard and Lyanna specifically) to their last breath.

 

[T-K-G]

on this 4/5 reread and noticing small stuff the door to the FM temple is made out of half weirwood/ half ebony and they have faces on em, arya said they gave off the same vibe as the tree back in Winterfell

so i guess my question is can Bran see through anything as long as it's made of weirwood and the "face" is intact? or does it have to be in rooted tree form


if he could see the past/future of those FM nikkas that would be major

 

[Malik]

Here's one :

The true nature and purpose of the Others and the ending of the series (Spoilers All) : asoiaf

Also this neogaf post had folks losing it : NeoGAF - View Single Post - *UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 4 - Sundays on HBO

This theory is amazing.

It makes sense given that GRRM has been adamant about subverting literary tropes. So I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Others weren't just mindless evil demons but, mystical beings that thought they were protecting their realm

• The Long Night ends with Azor Ahai defeating (making a truce with) the Others
• The Others agree to go back to the Land of Always Winter and the Others build the Wall of Ice. Not Bran the Builder. This makes alot more sense.
• The Nights Watch was supposed to keep BOTH the North (Others) and the South (Humans) from crossing into each other's territory ()
• The Night's Watch Commander takes an Other as his bride to cement the truce (the Starks have the blood of the Others in them )
• He becomes the Night's King and goes "evil" according to the humans (the victors write the history books)
• The Lord of Winterfell and the King Beyond the Wall defeat him and kill the Night's Queen
• This broke the truce with the WWs/Others along with the arrival of "fire magic" throwing off the balance (Dragons.....that are supposed to be in Asshai, the opposite end of the world )
• Rhaegar realized this and set out to create a union of Fire and Ice. His dragonblood and the Starks blood of the Others.
• Rhaegar realized that even though him "kidnapping" Lyanna would spring the realm into war, that it was worth it to stop the Others, which would basically be the Apocalypse (that can certainly explain this erratic decision )

 

[beanz]

This theory is amazing.

It makes sense given that GRRM has been adamant about subverting literary tropes. So I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Others weren't just mindless evil demons but, mystical beings that thought they were protecting their realm

• The Long Night ends with Azor Ahai defeating (making a truce with) the Others
• The Others agree to go back to the Land of Always Winter and the Others build the Wall of Ice. Not Bran the Builder. This makes alot more sense.
• The Nights Watch was supposed to keep BOTH the North (Others) and the South (Humans) from crossing into each other's territory ()
• The Night's Watch Commander takes an Other as his bride to cement the truce (the Starks have the blood of the Others in them )
• He becomes the Night's King and goes "evil" according to the humans (the victors write the history books)
• The Lord of Winterfell and the King Beyond the Wall defeat him and kill the Night's Queen
• This broke the truce with the WWs/Others along with the arrival of "fire magic" throwing off the balance (Dragons.....that are supposed to be in Asshai, the opposite end of the world )
• Rhaegar realized this and set out to create a union of Fire and Ice. His dragonblood and the Starks blood of the Others.
• Rhaegar realized that even though him "kidnapping" Lyanna would spring the realm into war, that it was worth it to stop the Others, which would basically be the Apocalypse (that can certainly explain this erratic decision )

i read it and i liked it too but one thing kinda threw it off for me.

the nights king supposedly was the 13th lord commander of the watch. so it kind of throws the timeline off unless im missing something. the nights watch and the wall didnt come to existence til after the war with the others. if the marriage between a nights watch commander and the female other was what stopped the war and formed a truce, how come they waited til the 13th lord commander to have the marriage?

everything else about it is pretty interesting though.

 

[BillBanneker]

This theory is amazing.

It makes sense given that GRRM has been adamant about subverting literary tropes. So I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Others weren't just mindless evil demons but, mystical beings that thought they were protecting their realm

• The Long Night ends with Azor Ahai defeating (making a truce with) the Others
• The Others agree to go back to the Land of Always Winter and the Others build the Wall of Ice. Not Bran the Builder. This makes alot more sense.
• The Nights Watch was supposed to keep BOTH the North (Others) and the South (Humans) from crossing into each other's territory ()
• The Night's Watch Commander takes an Other as his bride to cement the truce (the Starks have the blood of the Others in them )
• He becomes the Night's King and goes "evil" according to the humans (the victors write the history books)
• The Lord of Winterfell and the King Beyond the Wall defeat him and kill the Night's Queen
• This broke the truce with the WWs/Others along with the arrival of "fire magic" throwing off the balance (Dragons.....that are supposed to be in Asshai, the opposite end of the world )
• Rhaegar realized this and set out to create a union of Fire and Ice. His dragonblood and the Starks blood of the Others.
• Rhaegar realized that even though him "kidnapping" Lyanna would spring the realm into war, that it was worth it to stop the Others, which would basically be the Apocalypse (that can certainly explain this erratic decision )

Yeah, it's a interesting theory, the only things that don't make sense is the Night's King (if it was a agreed pact, why didn't the others attack then), and if the wall was for keeping humans out, how does this explain the wildings north of the wall?

 

[Malik]

Yeah, it's a interesting theory, the only things that don't make sense is the Night's King (if it was a agreed pact, why didn't the others attack then), and if the wall was for keeping humans out, how does this explain the wildings north of the wall?

The guy's explanation was that the Others don't reproduce like humans. It takes them a long while to rebuild their numbers. He also said they were long lived (immortal), so maybe time works differently to them (100 years might seem like 1 year). So when the Night's Queen was killed (which is like the Lannisters killing Elia Martell), the Others been planning revenge since. His explanation for the wildings is that the Others would kill them but, it was almost as if they were hoarding them like cattle and pushing them back to the Wall. His theory kinda of makes sense seeing that all the wilding villages are barely outside of the gates

 

[storyteller]

I can't see that Jojen paste ish being true. Bran told that whole story about the guy being punished for his sins by having to eat the ones he loved or some ish, so consuming loved ones is a punishment in his eyes (and Westoros custom for that matter). I also get the feeling that if Jojen was gonna die it'd be shown in the book, not an after thought "oh by the way, you ate Jojen." That could just be me though.

 

[Malik]

i read it and i liked it too but one thing kinda threw it off for me.

the nights king supposedly was the 13th lord commander of the watch. so it kind of throws the timeline off unless im missing something. the nights watch and the wall didnt come to existence til after the war with the others. if the marriage between a nights watch commander and the female other was what stopped the war and formed a truce, how come they waited til the 13th lord commander to have the marriage?

everything else about it is pretty interesting though.

His explanation was the first 12 lord commanders had contact with the Others. The Night's Watch now is about protecting Westeros from the White Walkers. His theory was that in the beginning, it wasn't partial to either side. It was there to keep the Others from going into Westeros and the Humans from going into the Land of Always Winter. The first 12 did that. Then the 13th Lord Commander took it a step further by actually taking an Other for a wife. The humans called it an abomination and then removed the Night's King and his Queen. When I see the Night's King and the fact that there are 12 dudes behind him, it makes me think