A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

Mr. Pink

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:wow: dont make me relive it, i was so salty cuz to the best of my knowledge he was (in my head) the only black person really bout that life in the series(or the only black person in the series period for that matter) the fukk boy from Quarth dont count :pacspit:
It's implied that Oberyn knows magic too. :wow:
I don't think there are even a handful of people in the books that know both magic and how to fight. There's Bloodraven, Jaqen, Oberyn and maybe Euron...
 

beanz

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Agreed. Some fakkit here on the Coli got mad about me making a thread saying "Ned Stark fukked up" and Negged me. But in the Neg Comments, this little nikka told me that Joffrey gets murdered in his wedding at that Catelyn isnt really dead and will be back as a zombie :dahell:

I knew then that either I had to get off the Coli or I needed to read the books. nikkas are so petty :camby:


:mjlol: thats fukked up.

i gotta admit i did something similar tho. it was to that ayo guy who was going off a couple seasons ago. he made a whole thread with the names of everybody that needed to get banned and i thought that was some real little homo shyt so i sent him a pm like "yo robb stark dies and so does his mother. :pacspit:"

i felt bad as soon as i pressed send tho :pachaha:[DOUBLEPOST=1397651795][/DOUBLEPOST]
It's implied that Oberyn knows magic too. :wow:
I don't think there are even a handful of people in the books that know both magic and how to fight. There's Bloodraven, Jaqen, Oberyn and maybe Euron...


yea supposedly oberyn went to the citadel and even forged a few maester's chains, one of which was the valyrian one for magic and sorcery. he was definitely an interesting character. i was so fukking pissed when he died :upsetfavre:
 

Devilinurear

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:wow: dont make me relive it, i was so salty cuz to the best of my knowledge he was (in my head) the only black person really bout that life in the series(or the only black person in the series period for that matter) the fukk boy from Quarth dont count :pacspit:
There are alot of black people just not a lot of major characters and in the books that dude from quart was not black
 

Tikal

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I don't think they are reachin, because their reasoning behind it is perfectly sound. As far as we can tell from the show, Cersei has the most to gain by Joffrey dying because she will regain influence as Queen Regent since Tommen is so young.

A rebuttal to that might be that she could have just killed Maergery instead, but that might bring the heat onto Cersei. Joffrey brings her no heat.

The best rebuttal is that Cersei would never harm her kids in any way, but without being able to see inner monologue it might be unclear for the viewer whether she is more interested in power or in her kids

The dots that the Cersei theorists aren't connecting though are that Cersei gaining more power IS one of the major reasons for Joff's poisoning. But only because Littlefinger wants chaos. Chaos is a ladder. That is the connection they haven't made.

Surprised that no one has brought up Varys...his dungeon conversation with Illyrio could be used as evidence for his involvement

I'm surprised some people think Cersei did it, i mean Joff already got married so shouldn't Maergery is the queen, right? Been a while since I read the books. Don't remember which side proposed that Tommen should marry maergery.

Littlefinger's plans is something that still has me :ohhh: still not sure what his end game is.


Sidenote: I'm not a huge fantasy fan so I'm worried that too much magic comes into play when the GRRM finish the story, with people rising from the dead and shapeshifters he could basically end however and chalk it up to magic :troll:
 

Tikal

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even when Oblock loses he still wins :banderas: we still have yet to see the havoc the sand snakes are gonna cause when they get the green light to fukk shyt up :banderas: Dorne might be the ones to permanently knock the lannister clan out of commission

yeah, but you never now with GRRM. Remember the Dorne prince getting burned into crisp trying to talk to the dragons :banderas:
 

duncanthetall

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yeah, but you never now with GRRM. Remember the Dorne prince getting burned into crisp trying to talk to the dragons :banderas:
That stupid fukk Quentyn I think. He deserved that shyt.

I really don't know what Littlefinger's end game is. I think, honestly, both him and Varys may be working towards the same goal of getting the Targaryens back in power. Varys is obviously, but is it as cut and dry as him still being loyal to the Targs? Aerys was a mad king, but it is known that those will occur. Surely Rhaegar would have been 10x the king that Robert and Joffrey have been. Probably sees that in Dany.

BTW, I was completely surprised when he showed up at the end and killed Pycelle and Kevan. Winds is about to be hectic, I'm sure
 

Objection

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Agreed. Some fakkit here on the Coli got mad about me making a thread saying "Ned Stark fukked up" and Negged me. But in the Neg Comments, this little nikka told me that Joffrey gets murdered in his wedding at that Catelyn isnt really dead and will be back as a zombie :dahell:

I knew then that either I had to get off the Coli or I needed to read the books. nikkas are so petty :camby:

:damn:

We would forever be enemies if someone would have done that shyt to me. That is some cold blooded shyt.
 

duncanthetall

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Yo... So check this theory about Doran

CONCLUSION 3: Doran Martell is a sick genius that sacrificed his own son in his game.

Reasoning
  • After Viserys died, supposedly Doran needed a new plan to return the Targaryen’s to power, so he sent his hapless son and some pathetic companions to marry Dany and bring home her dragons to Dorne. This plan is so pathetic and stupid, it is not credible that someone of Doran’s intellect would rely on it.
Quentyn’s chapters in ADwD just showed us that he was an ugly, not-very-bright, loyal, but incompetent prince, accompanied by less than the best & brightest of Dorne. When he dies, we are not surprised, as everything he does is retarded.

ADwD readers were frustrated at the “pointless” Quentyn chapters, which took up valuable book space while conclusions to more interesting story arcs were pushed off to TWoW.

I don’t believe that a writer of GRRM’s caliber would waste space on Quentyn’s unawesome adventure if it was pointless. So it wasn’t pointless. But what point could it have served?

Some readers put forth the theory that the point of Quentyn was just to free Dany’s dragons from their chains. Ummm… okay, but that could’ve been accomplished via other literary devices that did not waste so much of our time. No, this cannot be the point of Quentyn’s story; there must be another one.

It was also proposed that the purpose of Quentyn’s tale was to set up bad blood between Dany and Dorne. Ummmm… maybe, but I’m not buying it. I think Doran is too smart to turn on Dany just because Quentyn died. It wasn’t really Dany’s fault at all. No, there must be another purpose.

Was the purpose to show that Doran’s plan of sending Quentyn to Dany was just stupid? No, I don’t believe Doran is stupid. So there is only one remaining credible explanation of the purpose of Doran sending Quentyn to Dany, and it is shocking.

Doran sent Quentyn off to die on a fool’s mission.
Surely Doran knew that his son is an incompetent loser with little success of surviving the trip to Slaver’s Bay and bringing home Dany & her dragons. Doran knew that most likely Quentyn would fail and die. (If Quentyn were to somehow succeed, well – BONUS! But Doran couldn’t have been counting on that.)

He expected Quentyn to fail and probably die. So he effectively sent him off to die.

Why? For one, he lets his ineffectual son die in a heroic quest, which is a good death. For Doran, this is a sort of kindness to his son. But more importantly, he used his son as a pawn to win Dany and her dragons (for Aegon and Dorne).

He knew Quentyn wouldn’t bring back the dragons. He also knew that Quentyn’s death would most likely cause Dany to feel some regret and to recognize what a good ally Dorne would have been, even if she couldn’t marry Quentyn. (Dany’s regret and sympathy would be greater if Quentyn died; perhaps his “false coin” companion Drinkwater or whatever his name is was tasked by Doran to make sure Quent died.

By sacrificing Quentyn, he moved closer to an alliance with Dany.

Doran reasons that when he reveals Aegon/Darkstar as alive, allied with Dorne, and claiming the Iron Throne, then Dany will join her power and dragons with Aegon (and Dorne).

And then Doran will be able to truly rain “fire and blood” on his enemies.

Either something like that or Doran was equally as retarded as his son
 

Mr. Pink

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It doesn't seem plausible.

First of all Doran wouldn't know that much about his son seeing as Quentyn spent most of his life as Lord Yronwood's ward.

Second of all, it doesn't fit in with Doran's character. Doran is a genuinely good soul, and it's been emphasized more than once that he doesn't want to see the Dornish people suffer. Unlike Oberyn and most of the lords of Dorne(or Westeros for that matter) who are quite militant and ready to sacrifice their subjects in war just for their personal ambitions or grievances, Doran isn't like that. That's why he is disliked and thought of as weak.

Peep that story he tells the Sand Snakes in ADWD about the princess Daenerys who built the Water Gardens.
As the children splashed in the pools, Daenerys watched from amongst the orange trees, and a realization came to her. She could not tell the high-born from the low. Naked, they were only children. All innocent, all vulnerable, all deserving of long life, love, protection. ‘There is your realm,’ she told her son and heir, ‘remember them, in everything you do.’ My own mother said those same words to me when I was old enough to leave the pools. It is an easy thing for a prince to call the spears, but in the end the children pay the price. For their sake, the wise prince will wage no war without good cause, nor any war he cannot hope to win.

Doran is also very cautious, to the point of being indolent. He knows the consequences of playing the game of thrones, not just from himself but for the whole realm. He sent Quentyn because, even though he might place him in danger, it was the most he was willing to commit on such a long shot.

It was very noble really. Doran is one of the characters who is never mentioned among the "good ones" like Davos or Ned Stark, but he deserves to be up there.
 

Diunx

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That stupid fukk Quentyn I think. He deserved that shyt.

I really don't know what Littlefinger's end game is. I think, honestly, both him and Varys may be working towards the same goal of getting the Targaryens back in power. Varys is obviously, but is it as cut and dry as him still being loyal to the Targs? Aerys was a mad king, but it is known that those will occur. Surely Rhaegar would have been 10x the king that Robert and Joffrey have been. Probably sees that in Dany.

BTW, I was completely surprised when he showed up at the end and killed Pycelle and Kevan. Winds is about to be hectic, I'm sure

Varys wants to put the Blackfyres in the throne.
 
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Yo... So check this theory about Doran



Either something like that or Doran was equally as retarded as his son
The theory kind of falls apart when you consider that Doran didn't know that Dany had married Hizdar, and if she had not married Hizdar it is incredibly likely that she would have married Quentyn

I think we just need to accept that George got a little lost in his own story and got carried away by making Quentyn a point of view character. He wanted to dig deep into his mindstate to justify why he would do the actions that caused his death. And his death will cause tensions between Dorne and Dany. They will side with Aegon instead of her in the Dance Of Dragons 2.0
 
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