A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

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I have constantly gone back and for as to whether Aegon is legitimate or if he is a Blackfyre, but I think I have now accepted that he is definitely a Blackfyre. The fact that the Dunk and Egg tales even exist is my main reasoning, beyond all the textual support.

What this means is that Varys and Littlefinger truly are the two major players behind both Roberts Rebellion and the War of the 5 Kings. Roberts Rebellion being an unintentional consequence of Varys' actions and a 14 year hurdle before he could resume his plan.

This is further evidenced to me by HBO's heavy Varys vs. Littlefinger focus. The show creators seem to be doing some deep foreshadowing for an ending that they know is coming.
 

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Yea im convinced too. Plus the whole beware the mummers dragon shyt and varys being a mummer. It's like confirming he is a dragon but not a red dragon a black dragon. It's gonna be interesting as fukk.
 
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Sucks that there is no Coldhands, but I understand why they would cut him. Extra CGI budget that needs to go towards perfecting dragons which are getting large, and hopefully improving the direwolves. And I'm not sure Coldhands will even be revealed in the books, I think it is an intentional unsolved mystery left for the fans to decide. And even if he is revealed, it is probably just going to be Bran the Builder or the Nights King, neither of which HBO has time to really explore the mythology of so it might seem a little flat to show viewers who are not book readers
 

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Sucks that there is no Coldhands, but I understand why they would cut him. Extra CGI budget that needs to go towards perfecting dragons which are getting large, and hopefully improving the direwolves. And I'm not sure Coldhands will even be revealed in the books, I think it is an intentional unsolved mystery left for the fans to decide. And even if he is revealed, it is probably just going to be Bran the Builder or the Nights King, neither of which HBO has time to really explore the mythology of so it might seem a little flat to show viewers who are not book readers
what about uncle Benjen?
 
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what about uncle Benjen?

Nah, I think its safe to say he is ruled out

The Children's comment about "they killed him long ago" doesn't really seem to fit with Benjen, Them dudes live like 200 years, they wouldn't say "long ago" for someone who died a year ago

I think Bran the Builder, The Nights King, the son of the Nights King, or a random wight that Bloodraven learned to warg into are really the only options that make much sense
 

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If this series ends without a Stark in Winterfell I'm finna commit dat :demonic:
 

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I have constantly gone back and for as to whether Aegon is legitimate or if he is a Blackfyre, but I think I have now accepted that he is definitely a Blackfyre. The fact that the Dunk and Egg tales even exist is my main reasoning, beyond all the textual support.

What this means is that Varys and Littlefinger truly are the two major players behind both Roberts Rebellion and the War of the 5 Kings. Roberts Rebellion being an unintentional consequence of Varys' actions and a 14 year hurdle before he could resume his plan.

This is further evidenced to me by HBO's heavy Varys vs. Littlefinger focus. The show creators seem to be doing some deep foreshadowing for an ending that they know is coming.

Thats what I'm saying breh
Varys orchestrated D and V getting out of Kings Landing while also hiding Aegon
He is loyal to piece which in his mind is a Targaryan ruler

Littlefinger on the other hand Orchestrated the War on the 5 Kings

Those 2 will be huge parts of the next book
However
I dont think Littlefinger makes it thru the end for sure

I believe he grooms Sansa and she eventually kills him

Sansa in the end will have learned politics by the way of: Margeary, Littlefinger, and Cersei

Her politics game is going to be second to none in the end

oh and I promise my lil nikka Rickon gonna be a beast with the sword in the future​
 
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Thats what I'm saying breh
Varys orchestrated D and V getting out of Kings Landing while also hiding Aegon
He is loyal to piece which in hisImind is a Targaryan ruler

Littlefinger on the other hand Orchestrated the War on the 5 Kings

My Varys conclusion is a bit different though. If Aegon is a Blackfyre, then Varys isnt really about peace and he isnt really about the Targs. He helped get D and V out strictly as a potential future piece to his Blackfyre plan.

Which brings me to War of the 5 kings. While Littlefinger definitely was the main part of this, Varys also must have played some part in it somewhere since he was planning on using the Khalasaar joining in Aegon's army and using D and V to strengthen Aegon's claim. Everything went to shyt for various reasons, but Varys DID want that war, he just wanted it delayed until Khal Drago was on board.

Blackfyre or Targaryen, that is the question at the heart of it all
 

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My Varys conclusion is a bit different though. If Aegon is a Blackfyre, then Varys isnt really about peace and he isnt really about the Targs. He helped get D and V out strictly as a potential future piece to his Blackfyre plan.

Which brings me to War of the 5 kings. While Littlefinger definitely was the main part of this, Varys also must have played some part in it somewhere since he was planning on using the Khalasaar joining in Aegon's army and using D and V to strengthen Aegon's claim. Everything went to shyt for various reasons, but Varys DID want that war, he just wanted it delayed until Khal Drago was on board.

Blackfyre or Targaryen, that is the question at the heart of it all

Truth, exactly my thoughts as well.
And it may be crackpot, and I haven't read it anyway, but I think that Arya being a FM is just a means to an end. It is said that she is not supposed to be Arya but no one, so that would open up no one to fufill Arya Stark's hitlist, all sanctioned by the KOM and the house. For payment, the one coin.
 
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Reading some old GRRM correspondence. Couldn't help but laugh at this:

Fan: Anyway, love the series, and hope the next three books are just as good (and hopefully quickly out :smile: ).
GRRM: "Quickly?" Would that it were so... but these are huge books, and they take a long time to write. I'd look for A DANCE WITH DRAGONS sometime in 2002.
:upsetfavre:

(This was written in September 2000 shortly after Storm of Swords came out. ADWD was to be the next book, eventually it got so big that AFFC was added.)

As hilariously awful as this prediction was, it does show that he should be able to write faster. He gave a 2 year prediction for that book before he ended up getting tripped up by removing the planned 5 year lapse in time. It does give me hope that Dream of Spring will only take 2 years from Winds of Winter though. Perhaps 2015 for WOW and 2017 for DOS :leon:
 
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Looks like we might get Jon's parentage in WoW

Another old correspondence

November 2000
I asked about getting more info about Jon's parentage at the Menlo Park Q&As . . . he mentioned that it wouldn't be in #4 but it would be in #5 and on . . . so, we can argue about Rhaegar and Lyanna for the next several years;
This was back when 6 books was the plan. But it goes to show that GRRM at the time was not planning on waiting until the last book. :ehh:Plan could have changed though


Lots of interesting tidbits:

September 2000
If time is permiting would you mind giving a brief description on how the wall was constructed?

Much of those details are lost in the mists of time and legend. No one can even say for certain if Brandon the Builder ever lived. He is as remote from the time of the novels as Noah and Gilgamesh are from our own time.
:sadcam:I'm no longer putting Bran the Builder on my Coldhands suspect list



September 2000
Tigers14: another question, can NW vows be annulled if a person had no idea who he really was when he took them?

GeoRR: who had no idea who he was?

Tigers14: jon

GeoRR: Jon knows who he is. He may not know who his mother is, but that's not the same thing. There are plenty of orphans and b*stards in the Watch who don't know who their parents are.

Tigers14: yes. but if jon is the legitimate son of rhaegar and lyanna , he is the king of westeros.

GeoRR: well, you know I am not going to get into any of that

GeoRR: I think I've said enough for tonight.
:mjlol::umad:


November 2000 (when 5 year gap was still supposed to happen)
I mentioned in another thread that I asked GRRM if we would ever see a Cersei POV. He said that he is considering it. He thinks that it would be interesting to write but that he is not certain that it would be necessary to further the plotline. If it's not necessary, he probably won't write it.
:shaq2:


November 2000
We will meet Howland Reed, but not in the next book... he(Howland) knows just to much about the central mystery of the book...:win:


He has a meeting next week in Hollywood with a few execs' who want to make a TV mini-series out of these novels, I strongly tried to dissuade him... but he seemed leary of accepting thier proposal anyways...:dead:



December 2000
I was wondering if you would comment on Benjen Stark's fighting ability. Is he on a level with Brandon, or is he more like Ned?

Depends on the kind of fight you had in mind.

Brandon was the best of the Starks with sword in hand, and the best jouster as well. But Benjen has other skills that serve him well as a ranger... and Ned was likely the best battle commander.
Seems to possibly be hinting at Benjen being able to survive north of the wall :lupe:




. Were circumstances and timing of Tywin's death something you planned for a long time or another case of characters "taking intiative", like with Cat?
That scene was largely written even before A CLASH OF KINGS was published. Hell, I'd been setting up that "Lord Tywin shyts gold" line since his very first appearance in A GAME OF THRONES.
So you impatiently waited for years to drop the single worst line in the whole series and never realized how bad it was:birdman:



Mr Martin confessed that he was eagerly awaiting for the Lord of the Rings film, since as he told me, after the disappointment of Willow, it is a major chance for fantasy to conquer Hollywood
How you gonna diss the god Willow :damn:
 
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