A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[KatieGotAzzHairs]

A Blackfyre...that's a good one, that might be actually it. GRRM doesn't do anything without a deeper reason so you might be on to something. For someone reason I've always been a little confused about the Blackfyres. I gotta research my history on them. Is that the b*stard name of a Targareyn like someone from the North gets named Snow, the Reach gets named Flowers, etc?

 

[MidniteJay]

I just had a moment after posting in the show thread....

Remember when I asked who told Brandon Stark that Rhaegar Targaryen kidnapped Lyanna?

Earlier in this thread I accused Littlefinger of the entire thing but now I'm thinking maybe it was Robert Baratheon? We all know he was simping Lyanna something heavy and was set to marry her but then he gets sonned by Rhaegar when he chooses his betrothal as queen of love and beauty. Ned recalls that event making everyone

Robert stays salty about the whole thing, knows that Lyanna is creeping on him with Rhaegar and "jumps to conclusions" when Lyanna goes missing for a while. This gets to Brandon's ears and then boom "Robert's Rebellion"

It's kind of how like Bran's assassination was actually inspired by Robert's drunk talk. No?

 

[beanz]

I just had a moment after posing on the show thread....

Remember when I asked who told Brandon Stark that Rhaegar Targaryen kidnapped Lyanna?

Earlier in this thread I accused Littlefinger of the entire thing but now I'm thinking maybe it was Robert Baratheon? We all know he was simping Lyanna and set to marry her and then he gets sonned by Rhaegar when he chooses his betrothal as queen of love and beauty. Ned recalls that event making everyone

Robert stays salty about the whole thing, knows that Lyanna is creeping on him with Rhaegar and "jumps to conclusions" when Lyanna goes missing for about. This gets to Brandon's ears and then boom "Robert's Rebellion"

It's kind of how like Bran's assassination was actually inspired by Robert's drunk talk. No?

idk if thats robert's style tho. robert would have just straight up challenged rhaegar right there in the tourney in front of everybody if he thought they was already fukking.

i think its very possible that it was littlefinger. he had just got cut by brandon and lost catelyn to him. he knew how hot tempered brandon was so i wouldnt be surprised if he had it put in his ear that it was a kidnapping and rape. like he says in season 1 "im not going to fight them, im going to fukk them"

 

[beanz]

i just finished reading some shyt that has me .

i dont know how many of you are familiar with the tournament at harrenhal and the knight of the laughing tree (mystery knight that unhorsed 3 other knights in the tourney).

i just read a theory that the knight of the laughing tree was lyanna stark. at first i was like "another crackpot theory" but then it made sense and it answers a question ive always had. when the hell did rhaegar have time to fall in love with lyanna? well after the mystery knight leaves, the mad king orders rhaegar to find him and bring him back cause he is no friend to the throne. rhaegar leaves to find the knight and comes back saying he never found him. well what if he did find him and find out it was lyanna? that would explain why he not only named her the most beautiful woman at the tourney but he also gave her the winners sheath of roses.

they mention like 3 times in the books how good a rider she was and how much she loved to fight and they also keep mentioning how being good in the joust is more about how good of a rider u are than anything else.

if this is true, i really want to see a robert's rebellion movie. how fukking ill would it be if GRRM uses the prequel movie to reveal these things to people?

 

[MidniteJay]

idk if thats robert's style tho. robert would have just straight up challenged rhaegar right there in the tourney in front of everybody if he thought they was already fukking.

i think its very possible that it was littlefinger. he had just got cut by brandon and lost catelyn to him. he knew how hot tempered brandon was so i wouldnt be surprised if he had it put in his ear that it was a kidnapping and rape. like he says in season 1 "im not going to fight them, im going to fukk them"

Rhaegar is the prince though, Robert can't just challenge him to a duel to the death. The KG would be on top of him and he'd just get thrown in the dungeons after. It's what happens to Brandon Stark when he calls him out

I know the Mad King is nuts and all but why does he call for Robert's head if he had nothing to do with Brandon Stark beefing with Rhaegar.

 

[beanz]

Rhaegar is the prince though, Robert can't just challenge him to a duel to the death. The KG would be on top of him and he'd just get thrown in the dungeons after. It's what happens to Brandon Stark when he calls him out

I know the Mad King is nuts and all but why does he call for Robert's head if he had nothing to do with Brandon Stark beefing with Rhaegar.

true

 

[Foxmulder]

This nikka GRRM better answer all these questions y'all asking in this thread before the series is over.

 

[BonafideDefacto]

i just finished reading some shyt that has me .

i dont know how many of you are familiar with the tournament at harrenhal and the knight of the laughing tree (mystery knight that unhorsed 3 other knights in the tourney).

i just read a theory that the knight of the laughing tree was lyanna stark. at first i was like "another crackpot theory" but then it made sense and it answers a question ive always had. when the hell did rhaegar have time to fall in love with lyanna? well after the mystery knight leaves, the mad king orders rhaegar to find him and bring him back cause he is no friend to the throne. rhaegar leaves to find the knight and comes back saying he never found him. well what if he did find him and find out it was lyanna? that would explain why he not only named her the most beautiful woman at the tourney but he also gave her the winners sheath of roses.

they mention like 3 times in the books how good a rider she was and how much she loved to fight and they also keep mentioning how being good in the joust is more about how good of a rider u are than anything else.

if this is true, i really want to see a robert's rebellion movie. how fukking ill would it be if GRRM uses the prequel movie to reveal these things to people?

yooooo

breh...

its rare that someone hits me with something that hasn't already been speculated in my head...
but this...
This is the final connection i was looking for



Arya is described to be like a young Lyanna...
though un-flowered and yet to blossom and described as 'horse-faceish'
(shot-out to Jeyne Poole, hope you take even more beatings for talking shyt about my young she-wolf)

Note: By ADWD she is described of having noble beauty by the kindly-man

But back on subject...

This one paragraph seals it for me

-Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn't be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout. "You be quiet, stupid," the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. "It's just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?" She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, but before she got him out again, the two of them were gone. After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her.-

Shot-out to young Benjen Stark for getting that ass handed to him by a female,
hope that wasn't what you brought to them walkers

it would explain everything

​

 

[Malik]

i just finished reading some shyt that has me .

i dont know how many of you are familiar with the tournament at harrenhal and the knight of the laughing tree (mystery knight that unhorsed 3 other knights in the tourney).

i just read a theory that the knight of the laughing tree was lyanna stark. at first i was like "another crackpot theory" but then it made sense and it answers a question ive always had. when the hell did rhaegar have time to fall in love with lyanna? well after the mystery knight leaves, the mad king orders rhaegar to find him and bring him back cause he is no friend to the throne. rhaegar leaves to find the knight and comes back saying he never found him. well what if he did find him and find out it was lyanna? that would explain why he not only named her the most beautiful woman at the tourney but he also gave her the winners sheath of roses.

they mention like 3 times in the books how good a rider she was and how much she loved to fight and they also keep mentioning how being good in the joust is more about how good of a rider u are than anything else.

if this is true, i really want to see a robert's rebellion movie. how fukking ill would it be if GRRM uses the prequel movie to reveal these things to people?

I think its a forgone conclusion that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son. People only doubt it because they think it was too easy to put the puzzle together and they know GRRM has a tendency to troll nikkas.

You had Rhaegar, a 23 year old prince obsessed about this stupid prophecy. The Prince that was Promised....the Song of Ice and Fire. I think he met Lyanna and realized immediately that the prophecy was about the Targaryens and the Starks....the South and the North uniting and he was willing to start a war over it.

Other subtle jabs I notice is the spelling of "Ice and Fire". People don't say "Ice and Fire". They say "Fire and Ice". It sounds better and flows better off the tongue. I think the reason GRRM purposely put it like that is because Jon Snow is a Stark first and foremost (dark hair, dark eyes, raised in the North), and a Targaryen second (not having any of the Targ characteristics).

Another one is the flowers. Lyanna liked wearing a crown of blue petals around her head. That's a pretty odd and unusual thing for a girl to wear, don't you think? Daenerys had a dream about blue petals. She saw them growing out of a giant wall of ice. Lyanna used to wear Blue Petals Jon Snow guards a giant wall of ice


Dany also seen a vision of Rhaegar calling out some woman's name as he died. It wasn't Elia

 

[Malik]

Another theory of mines...Dorne is supposed to be inspired by the real-life country of Wales. With Spain mixed in. A fact corroborated by GRRM.

"Dorne is definitely influenced a bit by Spain, a bit by Wales. But nothing is one and one. I took that together. Dorne is a very special land, with a slightly different cultural basis than the rest of Westeros...it was politically apart for a long time, it was also culturally apart because of the Rhoynar and the traditions they brought, but they didn’t influence the rest of Westeros so much. So the dornish have their own particular sort of customs. I see that in Spain with the whole history, particularly the Moorish history of Spain, you know...it really sets it apart from France."[3]
"I read a lot of history, and mine it for good stuff, but I also like to mix and match. That is to say, I don't do straight one-for-one transplants, as some authors do, so you can't really say that X in Westeros equals Y in real life. More often X in Westeros equals Y and Z in real life, with squidges of Q, L, and A.
In the case of Dorne, yes, Wales was definitely an influence, for all the reasons you cite. But there's also some distinctly unWelsh elements down there. South of the wall of mountains [the Red Mountains] you have a hot, dry country more like Spain or Palestine than the cool green valleys of Wales, with most of the settlements along the seacoast and in few great river basins. And you also have the flavor given the culture by the great Rhoynar influx led by Nymeria. I suppose the closest real life equivalent to that would be the Moorish influence in parts of Spain. So you could say Dorne is Wales mixed with Spain and Palestine with some entirely imaginary influences mixed in. Or you could just say it's Dorne

The Game of Thrones is also inspired by the real-life story of the War of the Roses. Another fact corroborated by GRRM.

Qhorinmate says: I have read that Westeros is "sort of based on medieval Britain". How true is that and what would be the most fascinating thing about this set of islands that has attracted you to its history?

GRRM: Westeros is probably closer to medieval Britain than anything else. Geographically, it occupies a somewhat similar position off a larger contintent, although Westeros is considerably larger and is, in fact, a continent itself, more like South America. And although I've drawn on many parts of history, the War of the Roses is probably the one my story is closest to.

The War of the Roses ended because this guy named Henry Tudor came out of nowhere, won the throne and finally brought stability to England.

If Jon Snow is Lyanna Stark's son, then that means he was born in the Tower of Joy. The Tower of Joy is in Dorne.

Dorne is influenced by the real-life country of Wales.

Henry Tudor, the guy who won the War of the Roses, was born in Wales

Maybe it means something, maybe it doesn't

 

[KatieGotAzzHairs]

This nikka GRRM better answer all these questions y'all asking in this thread before the series is over.

Yo, but what if dude dies before it's all finished?!! fukk!!! I'm gonna kill myself just so I can go to heaven and get some answers out that motherfukker. I know more about this shyt than I know about my state government. Don't know who the fukk my congressman is but I know every house sworn to the Tyrells and Martells. I should be writing my own work yet I'm too busy thinking about GRRM's!

 

[beanz]

I think its a forgone conclusion that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son. People only doubt it because they think it was too easy to put the puzzle together and they know GRRM has a tendency to troll nikkas.

You had Rhaegar, a 23 year old prince obsessed about this stupid prophecy. The Prince that was Promised....the Song of Ice and Fire. I think he met Lyanna and realized immediately that the prophecy was about the Targaryens and the Starks....the South and the North uniting and he was willing to start a war over it.

Other subtle jabs I notice is the spelling of "Ice and Fire". People don't say "Ice and Fire". They say "Fire and Ice". It sounds better and flows better off the tongue. I think the reason GRRM purposely put it like that is because Jon Snow is a Stark first and foremost (dark hair, dark eyes, raised in the North), and a Targaryen second (not having any of the Targ characteristics).

Another one is the flowers. Lyanna liked wearing a crown of blue petals around her head. That's a pretty odd and unusual thing for a girl to wear, don't you think? Daenerys had a dream about blue petals. She saw them growing out of a giant wall of ice. Lyanna used to wear Blue Petals Jon Snow guards a giant wall of ice


Dany also seen a vision of Rhaegar calling out some woman's name as he died. It wasn't Elia

Oh no doubt. I think I'm 99.9 percent sure that r+l=j. What I'm saying is that lyanna being the Knight of the laughing tree is probably what made rhaegar fall in love with her in the first place if it's true. Lyanna was a warrior unlike Elia who is described as frail and delicate.

 

[detroitwalt]

 

[Microfracture]

Dany has to be fed up over there, she's gotta get to Westeros in Winds of Winter or else GRRM is wasting her character. The Mereenese seemed like ungrateful motherfukkers anyway, she should just hop on Drogon, get that khalasar on her side, reunite the sellswords, round up the Unsullied and go catch wreck.

 

[detroitwalt]

Will the Dothroki follow her across the sea though? I have no doubt they would have followed Drogo with
perhaps some initial reservation. It's going to be interesting to see how hard she has to convince them to get on those ships. It's going to be some major fukkery going on if they hit a really bad storm.