A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[Adam3000]

I believe the context of that was that he (GRRM) left info on more or less what would happen, in case he straight up dies or some shyt. I doubt there's plans for the show to get ahead of the book

The business of television disagrees with you heavily, as does logic and reasoning and every piece of rumor and info regarding the scenario that can be plucked from the interet

This show isn't an artistic statement that HBO is willing to take a loss on. It is a television show that needs to continue to press the story so they do not lose viewerss and subscribers, and they have no need to cater to upset book readers when they have a far more important crowd to cater to (their viewers).

This isn't even really an argument. GRRM is dropping the ball, it would be 100% his fault if the show finishes first. HBO will finish the series without him if he can't drop Dream of Spring by around 2017-2018. Period, end of discussion.

 

[O.Red]

I believe the context of that was that he (GRRM) left info on more or less what would happen, in case he straight up dies or some shyt. I doubt there's plans for the show to get ahead of the book

Ok so HBO is gonna wait for George to finish the next 2 books?

Book 6 MIGHT come out next year(). That leaves a 3-5 year wait for book 7

You think HBO is gonna wait till 2018-19

 

[daze23]

The business of television disagrees with you heavily, as does logic and reasoning and every piece of rumor and info regarding the scenario that can be plucked from the interet

This show isn't an artistic statement that HBO is willing to take a loss on. It is a television show that needs to continue to press the story so they do not lose viewerss and subscribers, and they have no need to cater to upset book readers when they have a far more important crowd to cater to (their viewers).

This isn't even really an argument. GRRM is dropping the ball, it would be 100% his fault if the show finishes first. HBO will finish the series without him if he can't drop Dream of Spring by around 2017-2018. Period, end of discussion.

the business of television is that most shows don't make it so many seasons anyway

I mean, if the show truly got 'ahead of the books', and the books still came after, what the fukk would that be? whatever info the HBO peeps have, it's obviously not every detail contained in the next two books. it basically means the stories would diverge greatly. at some point that would just make the show something very different, and not a true ending to the story

and what ball is GRRM dropping when the first book came out 18 years ago? the first book that contained 'visions' of things still to come. this story been cookin for a minute, so why rush it now?

and I don't appreciate being told something is the "end of discussion". wtf is that?

 

[Adam3000]

the business of television is that most shows don't make it so many seasons anyway

I mean, if the show truly got 'ahead of the books', and the books still came after, what the fukk would that be? whatever info the HBO peeps have, it's obviously not every detail contained in the next two books. it basically means the stories would diverge greatly. at some point that would just make the show something very different, and not a true ending to the story

So? They know the overarching story and the end-game, so they can fill in some of their own details in between. That really is irrelevant. Like I said, this show is not some sort of artistic statement by HBO. If they have to add in a few of their own details then so be it.

and what ball is GRRM dropping when the first book came out 18 years ago? the first book that contained 'visions' of things still to come. this story been cookin for a minute, so why rush it now

He is dropping the ball because he sold his books to be adapted to television, he knew the timeline he had to finish them which by the way was a decade long, and he is still has yet to demonstrate that he is able to meet the demand. He is not dropping the ball from a literary perspective so don't get that confused, what I mean he is dropping the ball strictly on subject of finishing his book series before the television show is inevitably going to finish.

and I don't appreciate being told something is the "end of discussion". wtf is that?

You are arguing that Santa Claus is real right now. There is no need to discuss it any more. It isn't a debate when you are the only person on Earth who thinks that the show won't go on without the books if GRRM can't finish them on time. Even GRRM knows that isn't the case.

 

[Arianne Martell]

How the show viewers are going to know the ending before the readers? what was GRRM thinking??

anyways...

anybody else mad that the show did not have Chataya and Alayaya their description was beautiful!

 

[daze23]

So? They know the overarching story and the end-game, so they can fill in some of their own details in between. That really is irrelevant. Like I said, this show is not some sort of artistic statement by HBO. If they have to add in a few of their own details then so be it.

they already do diverge, but "at some point" it will just become something else. maybe they decide to diverge from GRRM's intended ending all together. I'm not sure where that scenario fits into this discussion

He is dropping the ball because he sold his books to be adapted to television, he knew the timeline he had to finish them which by the way was a decade long, and he is still has yet to demonstrate that he is able to meet the demand. He is not dropping the ball from a literary perspective so don't get that confused, what I mean he is dropping the ball strictly on subject of finishing his book series before the television show is inevitably going to finish.

that's equally HBO's fault for basing a series on an unfinished series of books. but the 'business of television' doesn't really look that far out to begin with. at that point there would still be the question if the first season would be successful at all

It isn't a debate when you are the only person on Earth who thinks that the show won't go on without the books if GRRM can't finish them on time.

that seems like a strawman when people seem to be saying the show will get ahead of the book regardless

 

[storyteller]

I actually could picture HBO doing a copout where they do some sorta prequel run to give GRR more time depending on how far form finished he is. There's graphic novels and plenty of back story material to work with. The danger with that is how much older the cast could get waiting for this dude to finish a novel.

 

[KatieGotAzzHairs]

How the show viewers are going to know the ending before the readers? what was GRRM thinking??

anyways...

anybody else mad that the show did not have Chataya and Alayaya their description was beautiful!

I know I'm kind of confused they didn't have any Kettleblacks in the show, those dudes are kind of important pawns in Cersei's schemes and plots. Or did they have Kettleblacks and I'm just misremembering everything.

 

[Arianne Martell]

I know I'm kind of confused they didn't have any Kettleblacks in the show, those dudes are kind of important pawns in Cersei's schemes and plots. Or did they have Kettleblacks and I'm just misremembering everything.

Not yet...I'm trying to remember...but I think is later on in the books when Cersei assigns them to the Kingsguard. I might be wrong.

 

[SkillClash]

so when this is all set and done will Ice and Fire have a larger impact/influence then Lord of the Rings?

is GRRM the next Tolkien?

 

[daze23]

“I think the odds against that happening are very long,” Martin says when asked about the show catching up to his novels. “I still have a lead of several gigantic books. If they include everything in the books, I don’t think they’re going to catch up with me. If they do, we’ll have some interesting discussions.”

 

[Arianne Martell]

he is all of us because his record proves otherwise.

 

[daze23]

well the show getting ahead of the book is unprecedented (afaik), and would be awkward at best. that's part of why I don't understand why people think it's so likely. I also saw talk of HBO doing some kind of prequel, pehaps Dunk and Egg related, to fill in time

think about the juxtapose of the situation as book readers try to avoid spoilers that have been broadcast to the (probably) larger show audience

 

[KatieGotAzzHairs]

Not yet...I'm trying to remember...but I think is later on in the books when Cersei assigns them to the Kingsguard. I might be wrong.

No, I think you're right. I guess with Jamie back in Kings Landing already the show could introduce a Kettleblack or two and have Cersei appoint one of them to the Kingsguard which would create tension between her and Jamie. I feel like they need at least one because his forced confession to the septon(?) causes Cersei's scheme to unravel.

 

[KatieGotAzzHairs]

so when this is all set and done will Ice and Fire have a larger impact/influence then Lord of the Rings?

is GRRM the next Tolkien?

I suppose with the internet and the show and even itunes Apps, and Facebook games, and other videogames it just may have the larger impact then LOTR. There's just many ways to consume information about it and talk about the world. I know I read a wiki App for it on my iphone all the time when I'm waiting around for something.

For me personally these were the best books I've ever read and I read a lot of books. Lots and lots and lots. Even the "worst" of the series was better to me than anything else I've ever read. And I look forward to seeing the remake of the show when I'm 45 years old and then the next remake when I'm 65.