A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[Adam3000]

all the evidence is vague at best.

No Its not


Every book expert regards it as truth. There is a lot of clear textual evidence plus just logical expectations for the character

 

[BonafideDefacto]

Lo-key...ur image made me spit-out my water here at work
shyt cracked me up breh
​

 

[daze23]

Every book expert regards it as truth.

 

[duck]

I really hope the children of the forest have teamed up with the Others and Bran is going to lead them in retaking Westeros from the Andals. Need all these houses wiped out except for those with blood of the first men

I doubt It. The others killed plenty of wildlings already, and the got 1st men blood in their veins

 

[Malik]

all the evidence is vague at best. it's speculation IMO

Jon Snow is Rhaegar's son. Readers have had years to put together all the clues. They all fit.


The most damning one is the Tower of Joy. The Kingsguard wouldn't be guarding some jumpoff slave......not when a war is going on and the Targaryen family is being slaughtered. To put it in modern perspective, its like the Secret Service not protecting the President's wife and children. But instead some random woman It only makes sense if Jon Snow is Rhaegar's son and Rhaegar was convinced that this unborn baby would grow to become Azor Ahai.....a prophecy Rhaegar had gone mad over, so Rhaegar forced the Kingsguard to defend Lyanna instead of his wife and other children.


Daenerys' vision.....Blue petals growing out of a wall of ice. Lyanna loved wearing blue flowers in her hair. Jon Snow is a sworn defender of The Wall. Not much to put together here. It's right in your face.


I think Martin even dropped hints with Ned and King Robert. Ned stayed telling Robert that he didn't know Lyanna as well as he thought he did....."you didn't see the iron underneath"....when you accept the theory that Ned knows Jon Snow is Lyanna and Rhaegar's son and that Ned knows Lyanna ran away on purpose......it gives the "you didn't really know my sister" line more meaning. That's Ned lowkey telling his boy he was wrong about everything without really telling him

 

[JMurder]

Reading the books now

 

[TheGreatShowtime]

I just finished ASOS. I get so hyped when reading the books, but when I finish I have little motivation to start the next book

 

[Black Magisterialness]

First of all, Renly wasn't a seasoned anything. He had absolutely no accomplishment in any field. Not as a knight, not as a commander, not as a scholar, not as a statesman. Nada.

Second of all, Renly didn't "rule" over the Stormlands or Storm's End. His castellan did. Renly spent his time in King's Landing where he was Master of Laws on Robert's council. An empty title, I might add, since he spent his time "jesting with Littlefinger" and being Loras Tyrell's butt buddy.

Thirdly, the Storm Lords flocked to Renly mostly because of Robert. It was Robert who made Renly a powerful lord in the first place. And they followed Renly because he reminded them of Robert. But Renly wasn't like Robert, he was no warrior.
The Tyrells followed Renly because Loras was his butt buddy, and because Mace Tyrell is a fool(a fact made clear time and time again).

Really, I could go on, but why? Virtually every character who offers an opinion about Renly, except Brienne and Loras who both love him, dismiss him outright.
Stannis, Donal Noye, Maester Cressen(who practically raised him), Jaime Lannister, Olenna Tyrell, Oberyn Martell, Barristan Selmy. They can't all be wrong.

This everyone in the know talks about how he was just a well dressed neophyte who had no real battle or true political experience. Renly was the Westeros equivalent to a young George Clooney....and people rolled with him off that name recognition and not Stannis because he was so bitter and cold. The north was with Robb and very few were with the actual incumbent royal family, BUT through Tywin's command they survived.

Renly was like Brandon Roy so much potential but taken out of the game way too soon to be a factor. But he did have the people behind him.

 

[daze23]

Jon Snow is Rhaegar's son. Readers have had years to put together all the clues. They all fit.


The most damning one is the Tower of Joy. The Kingsguard wouldn't be guarding some jumpoff slave......not when a war is going on and the Targaryen family is being slaughtered. To put it in modern perspective, its like the Secret Service not protecting the President's wife and children. But instead some random woman It only makes sense if Jon Snow is Rhaegar's son and Rhaegar was convinced that this unborn baby would grow to become Azor Ahai.....a prophecy Rhaegar had gone mad over, so Rhaegar forced the Kingsguard to defend Lyanna instead of his wife and other children.


Daenerys' vision.....Blue petals growing out of a wall of ice. Lyanna loved wearing blue flowers in her hair. Jon Snow is a sworn defender of The Wall. Not much to put together here. It's right in your face.


I think Martin even dropped hints with Ned and King Robert. Ned stayed telling Robert that he didn't know Lyanna as well as he thought he did....."you didn't see the iron underneath"....when you accept the theory that Ned knows Jon Snow is Lyanna and Rhaegar's son and that Ned knows Lyanna ran away on purpose......it gives the "you didn't really know my sister" line more meaning. That's Ned lowkey telling his boy he was wrong about everything without really telling him

I understand all this. at some point it's like I have to argue the semantics of what is "speculation". until there is direct solid evidence, it is "speculation". that doesn't mean it's not true, or not highly likely

 

[storyteller]

I understand all this. at some point it's like I have to argue the semantics of what is "speculation". until there is direct solid evidence, it is "speculation". that doesn't mean it's not true, or not highly likely

Since it's not official, it's all speculation...but in terms of theories, this is the most obviously foreshadowed aspect of the entire story. It's been foreshadowed from the beginning and the evidence has continued to mount with each book. When I think speculation, I think the theory that the grave digger is the Hound (lying to Brienne bc he's done with life as the Hound) or that the Jester that follows around Stannis' daughter is actually the Drowned God. Those require some reaches to fill in blanks, whereas the Snow = Targeryan has been filled in entirely by the author himself.

 

[Bud Bundy]

I with @daze23 until GRR writes it down i still think jon snow is ned starks b*stard.

 

[daze23]

I with @daze23 until GRR writes it down i still think jon snow is ned starks b*stard.

it could very well be true. I just don't like how people frame it like it should be obvious, or like it's some kind of accepted fact

and it all begs the question where all this is going. goddamn all those cliffhangers we were left with

 

[Bud Bundy]

it could very well be true. I just don't like how people frame it like it should be obvious, or like it's some kind of accepted fact

and it all begs the question where all this is going. goddamn all those cliffhangers we were left with

And this is why I think I am against the theory.

 

[daze23]

And this is why I think I am against the theory.

yep, trollGRRM could be sprinkling red hearings everywhere

 

[MidniteJay]

Whitewalkers winning in the end is would get A LOT of people heated...

I'm not sure how GRRM can top the Red Wedding (if he even plans too) but IMO Whitewalkers winning and all Starks dead (without pulling it out of his ass) are the only way he can.