A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[BonafideDefacto]

I just got finished reading the first GOT book. If I was Ned Stark......I'd supported Renly Baratheon as the new king.

• I'd marry Renly off to Margery Tyrell. That's House Baratheon, House Stark and House Tyrell all united.
• I'd give Loras Tyrell to a girl from Dorne. That's House Martell on board, that's four houses.
• House Tully and House Arryn would rock with whatever Ned was doing off gp. That's six houses together.
• To rub it in even worse, I'd get the Iron Islands in the mix. I'd give back Theon and offer them back control of Casterly Rock and maybe Harrenhall too (places they used to govern) when the war was over. That's seven houses

We'd crush Kings Landing and House Lannister. Renly would be the new king and everybody would go home in one piece. And before all that, I'd tell Stannis to get down or lay down either take the Black with the Night's Watch or some Tears of Lys would wind up in Stannis' coffee......because nobody likes you nikka and you not willing to network with any of the great houses With Stannis dead.....Renly would be considered the rightful king after we showed the realm what inbred sister fukkers the Lannisters were. End of the war. End of the conflict. Until the White Walkers came. Ned would still have his head.

Lmao @ Supporting the f@aggot Renly
Ol Rainbow Sigil having ass
He would've never had any heirs


What I would've done from the moment Robert Died...


I would bounced from Kings Landing but before hand made a pact with Renly and Stannis to raise there banners and attack from the south
I would remind them that Robert's Rebellion didn't necessarily have a King set in the plans and we would discus it if we all survive


At that point I would raise my banners from the North

With Ned leading the North


The war would've lasted maybe 1yr at most


At that point I would reveal the truth of Jon
(Son of Rheagor and Lyanna)



He would become King


I would then offer safe passage for Daenerys and marry her to Jon





All the Lannisters would've been killed minus Tyrion and Jaimie


I would give Tyrion Casterly Rock but seize most of the Lannister coin to take the realm out of debt
Jaimie would be sent to the wall

At this point all the crazy shyt North of the wall would be happening.
Jon already having sentiment to the North would send the army of unsullied north coupled with the North Army
who would still be fully intact

Only thing with changing things is what happens with Bran.
He is going to play a HUGE part in winning the White War.
Does he somehow leave without telling to go north?


​

 

[Adam3000]

at supporting Renly. Dude is dead on arrival, Stannis got that shadow seed. Never was a player.

Ned's major mistake was not telling Robert before he died about the kids. Robert could have made royal declarations with multiple witnesses and ended it there before he died. Named Stannis or Renly heir and deaded it from the start. Ned never had that power.

 

[Malik]

Renly was a player. He had more people in the realm supporting him than Stannis. Nobody fukked with Stannis. Nobody. He wouldn't have been the first gay king in history. You're crazy if you believe that. If Renly didn't want to end up with seven kingdoms in war, he'd find the strength to mount his wife a few times

 

[T-K-G]

Renly was a player. He had more people in the realm supporting him than Stannis. Nobody fukked with Stannis. Nobody. He wouldn't have been the first gay king in history. You're crazy if you believe that. If Renly didn't want to end up with seven kingdoms in war, he'd find the strength to mount his wife a few times

hold up breh, you haven't read the rest of the books and you in here bangin for Renly? i dont care if you seen the show you're eyes gotta grace that text and really come to understand how GRRM is detailing those succulent meats and boiled wines before you start reppin anyone



get some literary stripes first, learn about this FM lifestyle, that Stoneheart vendetta, Brandalf the Cripple, then come back and see if you dont delete that post out of embarrassment

you either down with #Targset or #Wolfgang .... anyone else and you might get that macho camacho plehboi

 

[Malik]

hold up breh, you haven't read the rest of the books and you in here bangin for Renly?



get some literary stripes first, learn about this FM lifestyle, that Stoneheart vendetta, Brandalf the Cripple, then come back and see if you dont delete that post out of embarassment

you either down with #Targset or #Wolfgang .... anyone else get's the macho camacho plehboi

I said if I was Ned Stark, that's what I would have done.

I doubt Ned was thinking about #TeamStark or #Wolfgang when his head was flying in the air

Nikka wanted to go home in one piece and raise his kids.

Supporting Renly could have done that.....got five to six houses on one side QUICK....

 

[T-K-G]

I said if I was Ned Stark, that's what I would have done.

I doubt Ned was thinking about #TeamStark or #Wolfgang when his head was flying in the air

Nikka wanted to go home in one piece and raise his kids.

Supporting Renly could have done that.....got five to six houses on one side QUICK....

no, Ned did that


so hopefully his kids superpowers could grow through that

 

[Malik]

no, Ned did that


so hopefully his kids superpowers could grow through that

Man....forget all that.....I'd be trying not to have my head cut off

This nikka Ned was out here trying to be honorable around liars and cutthroats.

 

[beanz]

What ned really should have done is just not trust littlefinger and left the city as soon as Robert died. Regrouped up north and send Ravens from there to all the kingdoms.

 

[MidniteJay]

What ned really should have done is just not trust littlefinger and left the city as soon as Robert died. Regrouped up north and send Ravens from there to all the kingdoms.

What's fukked up about that is Littlefinger himself told Ned Stark not to trust him

Anyway, Renly was a big ass threat. If I was Ned I would have taken Renly's offer of help too...

 

[The Real]

Lmao @ Supporting the f@aggot Renly
Ol Rainbow Sigil having ass
He would've never had any heirs
​

at supporting Renly. Dude is dead on arrival, Stannis got that shadow seed. Never was a player.

Both of these posts are inaccurate. Renly had way more supporters than Stannis and was universally recognized as a more popular choice for King with the general populace, not to mention a better potential ruler. Stannis was a seasoned military commander, not a seasoned ruler, plus he had no real taste for the throne or politics, unlike Renly. Renly had ruled over the Baratheon seat, a thriving city and land, and gained valuable experience doing so, while Stannis had a grey, dead island where he just walled himself up. Regardless, if it wasn't for the power to assassinate Renly with the shadow, Stannis would have been dead, since his army was outmatched at the time.

Anyway Stannis' wack ass served his purpose by this point in the books. He won't be seeing the throne anytime soon and will end up a minor character.

 

[Adam3000]

Both of these posts are inaccurate. Renly had way more supporters than Stannis and was universally recognized as a more popular choice for King with the general populace, not to mention a better potential ruler. Stannis was a seasoned military commander, not a seasoned ruler, plus he had no real taste for the throne or politics, unlike Renly. Regardless, if it wasn't for the power to assassinate Renly with the shadow, Stannis would have been dead, since his army was outmatched at the time.

Anyway Stannis' wack ass served his purpose by this point in the books. He won't be seeing the throne anytime soon and will end up a minor character.

Explain how my post was inaccurate because you said "IF it wasn't for the power to assassinate Renly with the shadow"

That's the whole point breh. Stannis did have that power. Renly's supporters didn't mean shyt, and Ned backing him wouldn't have changed anything. He was dead from the start and never was a player, just a footnote.

Furthermore, saying Ned should have joined up with Renly is ridiculous anyway because Ned is one of the few people with honor and morality and he recognized that Stannis was the true and rightful king by every law known to man. Ned's mistakes were with how he handled Cersei Lannister and Littlefinger, not how he handled Renly/Stannis. Saying Ned should have marched with Renly would have been a complete character assassination.

 

[BonafideDefacto]

Both of these posts are inaccurate. Renly had way more supporters than Stannis and was universally recognized as a more popular choice for King with the general populace, not to mention a better potential ruler. Stannis was a seasoned military commander, not a seasoned ruler, plus he had no real taste for the throne or politics, unlike Renly. Renly had ruled over the Baratheon seat, a thriving city and land, and gained valuable experience doing so, while Stannis had a grey, dead island where he just walled himself up. Regardless, if it wasn't for the power to assassinate Renly with the shadow, Stannis would have been dead, since his army was outmatched at the time.

Anyway Stannis' wack ass served his purpose by this point in the books. He won't be seeing the throne anytime soon and will end up a minor character.

Its not about Renly vs. Stannis for king
Putting either one on the throne wouldn't have solved the Targ issue coming
Renly would've never probably ended up with a male heir

My outlook was the best for the realm and addressed all the major issues

With Robert dead,
Ned would've swooped Jon from the watch and told him the truth after they would've defeated the Lannisters

The best thing for the Realm would've been the truth in the end
also with the unification of Daenerys and Jon

The relm would've had enough soldiers still available to fight the White Walkers

​

 

[The Real]

Explain how my post was inaccurate because you said "IF it wasn't for the power to assassinate Renly with the shadow"

That's the whole point breh. Stannis did have that power. Renly's supporters didn't mean shyt, and Ned backing him wouldn't have changed anything. He was dead from the start and never was a player, just a footnote.

Furthermore, saying Ned should have joined up with Renly is ridiculous anyway because Ned is one of the few people with honor and morality and he recognized that Stannis was the true and rightful king by every law known to man. Ned's mistakes were with how he handled Cersei Lannister and Littlefinger, not how he handled Renly/Stannis. Saying Ned should have marched with Renly would have been a complete character assassination.

If Ned had marched with Stannis, he probably would have defected after the assassination, which would definitely have offended his moral sensibilities.

The thing with the laws of the throne is that they're malleable. The Targs invaded, ignored previous laws, and set up a new one. Then Robert forced them out, again disobeying the laws, while also invoking them at the same time to justify his own kingship (the Baratheons are partially descended from a Targ line, and so technically closer to the line of the Targ kings than anyone else.) If Jon Snow is revealed as a Targ, then the laws will have to be arbitrarily invoked again, since his fam isn't on the throne anymore and it will have to be decided that, despite being invaders themselves, their line has more of a right to the throne than the Baratheons (Lannisters) on the throne.

Plus, look how outnumbered Stannis was. If the laws of rightful heirs mattered that much in the kingdoms, the vast majority of Robert's bannermen wouldn't have run over to Renly instead of Stannis. They made a choice based both on personal gain (Renly being richer, better liked personally) and for the kingdoms (Renly was a better politician, better liked by the public, and knew how to rule properly.)

 

[Mr. Pink]

First of all, Renly wasn't a seasoned anything. He had absolutely no accomplishment in any field. Not as a knight, not as a commander, not as a scholar, not as a statesman. Nada.

Second of all, Renly didn't "rule" over the Stormlands or Storm's End. His castellan did. Renly spent his time in King's Landing where he was Master of Laws on Robert's council. An empty title, I might add, since he spent his time "jesting with Littlefinger" and being Loras Tyrell's butt buddy.

Thirdly, the Storm Lords flocked to Renly mostly because of Robert. It was Robert who made Renly a powerful lord in the first place. And they followed Renly because he reminded them of Robert. But Renly wasn't like Robert, he was no warrior.
The Tyrells followed Renly because Loras was his butt buddy, and because Mace Tyrell is a fool(a fact made clear time and time again).

Really, I could go on, but why? Virtually every character who offers an opinion about Renly, except Brienne and Loras who both love him, dismiss him outright.
Stannis, Donal Noye, Maester Cressen(who practically raised him), Jaime Lannister, Olenna Tyrell, Oberyn Martell, Barristan Selmy. They can't all be wrong.

 

[Adam3000]

If Ned had marched with Stannis, he probably would have defected after the assassination, which would definitely have offended his moral sensibilities.

The thing with the laws of the throne is that they're malleable. The Targs invaded, ignored previous laws, and set up a new one. Then Robert forced them out, again disobeying the laws, while also invoking them at the same time to justify his own kingship (the Baratheons are partially descended from a Targ line, and so technically closer to the line of the Targ kings than anyone else.) If Jon Snow is revealed as a Targ, then the laws will have to be arbitrarily invoked again, since his fam isn't on the throne anymore and it will have to be decided that, despite being invaders themselves, their line has more of a right to the throne than the Baratheons (Lannisters) on the throne.

Plus, look how outnumbered Stannis was. If the laws of rightful heirs mattered that much in the kingdoms, the vast majority of Robert's bannermen wouldn't have run over to Renly instead of Stannis. They made a choice based both on personal gain (Renly being richer, better liked personally) and for the kingdoms (Renly was a better politician, better liked by the public, and knew how to rule properly.)

When I referred to Stannis being the ruler by law, it was strictly in reference to Ned's honor and not the bigger picture including the Targs. Ned supporting Renly would have gone against every moral fiber in Ned's being. Granted, Ned did help overthrow the Targs but it took the murder of his family and "kidnapping" of his sister to do it, so it doesn't go against his honor. A justified war to crown a new king is not even in the same universe as a younger brother declaring himself king just because people like him better.

Point blank, if it is between choosing Renly or Stannis then there is zero argument to be made for Ned backing Renly that doesn't assassinate his entire character. Ned's problem was expecting others (Cersei/Littlefinger) to also hold his honor. The North is cut from a different cloth.