A Blown Knee & Flat Tires-Another NY Pothole Year: 17-18 Knicks Season Thread

ProlificLurker

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I don’t want to celebrate people being fired but :stylin::stylin:

I love what Van Gundy did for the Knicks but I don’t want him back, I would be fine with Fizdale, Stackhouse, or Wright.

Ditto, big facts on the point abt Van Gundy. Older dude more than decade removed from the last time he coached an NBA game, yeah no thanks.

I couldn't take him becoming tainted by coming back and it not working out :francis: It'd be too much :mjcry::mjcry:
 

nyknick

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I just wish someone would show up to the interview and try to explain to them that playing 6'7 point guard with a 7' wingspan at his natural position is an advantage since he would on average be 5 inches taller than others at his position. While playing a point guard that can't shoot as a spot up shooting guard is not a good idea.

Hopefully someone can explain that to them :francis:
 

storyteller

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Do we crucify the team if the new coach is everything we dreamed of who maximizes the talent of our prospects and they play out of the top 5 picks?

How do we approach Wright, Fizdale or Stackhouse, if they are better than Horn?

I'm legit curious as to what brehs think the Knicks record would have been this year w/ the top coaching candidates. If Dotson, Timmy, Burke, and Frank would have come along faster under Stackhouse, would our record have been more or less wins?:jbhmm:

Less and that's not a bad thing. Management put out our goals for the season before opening tip,

"Player development will be a focus of our organization," said Mills, who noted that he and Perry will "work in tandem in making sure we have a first-class operation. The focus is on 'youth, athleticism, and defense,' added Mills, who said that everything the organization does "will fall back and will be supporting those principles."

Hornacek did not prioritize the youth until after the ASB, it should have shifted as soon as KP went down at a minimum (and management made a trade and statement which may point to them forcing the shift). His emphasis on defense is easy to question as the team defense completely collapsed once KP went down...that's because he paired Beas and Kanter the rest of the way as starters, that's prioritizing offense by every measure (doubly questionable when you look at KOQ's production as a starter these past couple of weeks). Defensive laziness was ignored while offensive mistakes got youth benched. So at the end of this season, that defensive mentality was no where to be found except in players who already had that mentality (Frank, Lance, KOQ somewhat and look at that...all bench pieces until very late in the season). So Horny didn't follow the expectations laid out for him on defensive mentality.

Willy Hernangomez expressed gratitude recently because his new coaches gave him a clear role and clear skills to work on...which points to Hornacek not being as effective communicating his developmental expectations at the very least. Frank had his role completely changed from PG to SG midseason which I only liked because at least it kept him on the floor. But Hornacek switched Frank to a combo or SG role and gave up on the PG stuff WAY too soon. Mudiay never figured out a thing. Willy got dealt. Dotson's development showed after G-League stints rather than NBA time. That's also true for Burke, Kornet and Hicks. They all showed development after lower league stints rather than time with Hornacek. None of this impacted our Win/Loss record negatively...but it does point to a lack of clear growth due to Hornacek's tutelage (one exception is Mudiay's jumper improving slightly but it went from garbage to inconsistent which is a small step that he'd already accomplished in Denver only to regress with us). That takes the two biggest goals of the season off the table for Hornacek's coaching success.

What are we left with? A big run while relying on the veterans and during an extremely friendly early portion of the schedule (just a gang of home games); youth that developed more away from the team than with it; and a defensive identity that got thrown in the garbage the second KP was injured (in spite of KOQ offering rim protection that the starting line-up was missing).

I can't say for certain that a Stackhouse would play the youth more but I'd suspect he'd put them in a better position to succeed. What I mean there is that Frank played with a lot of really uneven second units; Willy played in way too many 2 Center line-ups for the small ball era; Dotson got starts where he didn't see the floor in the second half; and the rest of the youth got their shots after management spoke on the issue. I suspect Stackhouse woulda done better, especially given the hype he's getting out of the G-league right now.

Fizdale would have been at a minimum better for our defensive goals. Would we win by benching Beasley or Kanter when they got lazy on defense? Maybe not, the firepower would be reduced..but we'd have incentivized defensive effort for a roster that developed some bad habits by the end of the season sans accountability(lookin' at THJ here).

Wright, honestly I'd edge him in both development and defense. He mighta had us winning enough games late to beat the low margin.

The difference and what I feel should be our focus when speaking on the job that Hornacek did is that those guys would be better prepared to develop youth and give us a defensive identity. Management wasn't concerned with wins and losses, so we should evaluate Hornacek on their preseason goals. That said, I don't think the rage over a win last night was anger in a vacuum. Had we ended the season with the same exact record but a defensive identity in place and a bunch of young guys who had been the focal point of those wins rather than bench pieces in awkward combinations; I don't think people would be as mad or maybe not mad at all. We couldn't do anything about last night, but over the course of the season...I feel we could have given better focus to the kids, built a real defensive brand and had more excitement because of it (while also organically losing a few more games in the early portion).
 

Miles Davis

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I’m excited for next season

If we can get a Top 3-5 pic next season, we can hit the ground running the next season with a healthy KP and an improved Frank
You forgot Bridges:ufdup:
Do we crucify the team if the new coach is everything we dreamed of who maximizes the talent of our prospects and they play out of the top 5 picks?

How do we approach Wright, Fizdale or Stackhouse, if they are better than Horn?

I'm legit curious as to what brehs think the Knicks record would have been this year w/ the top coaching candidates. If Dotson, Timmy, Burke, and Frank would have come along faster under Stackhouse, would our record have been more or less wins?:jbhmm:
If they play well they play well, but only as long as it’s youth and only people we building with or trying to see what they can do from day one. But even then I don’t see us winning many games.
 

TOAD99

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Do we crucify the team if the new coach is everything we dreamed of who maximizes the talent of our prospects and they play out of the top 5 picks?

How do we approach Wright, Fizdale or Stackhouse, if they are better than Horn?

I'm legit curious as to what brehs think the Knicks record would have been this year w/ the top coaching candidates. If Dotson, Timmy, Burke, and Frank would have come along faster under Stackhouse, would our record have been more or less wins?:jbhmm:

I think if young talent is used properly and they play better than expected, it’s okay
 

seemorecizzy

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What are you looking for in next coach?

Perry: "Looking for a coach that holds players accountable." "A good communicator, an effective leader who can connect with players and is equally aligned with being a strong defensive-minded team."

okay, we safe from blatt lol

its gonna be jackson or fits unless steve mills strong arms perry to put in his buddy pause
 

DPresidential

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@storyteller thanks for the reply.

I understand everything you've said.

I will say I disagree that if a better coach(better as in tune with defensive accountability & player development) was coaching this team, that they'd have a worse record, however.

I feel kind of uncomfortable with elephant in the room - that many people are arguing from a point of having their cake and eating it, too with respect to focused criticism. Wanting good young talent to play while also demanding orchestrated losses.

People expressed a serious issue with the result of the Dotson game as if the win was a failure by the organization. Same with the 9 man roster of the last game. And I've been able to tell between sarcasm and brehs who legit are upset about Horn letting that happen.

Not to be unfair, though, I'm not saying that there weren't many valid criticisms of the FO and, especially, Horn, but I'm not convinced that if, next year, we are competing(I feel disgusted using this word in re this topic) for lottery position the Tank Bros. are going to be comfortable and accepting of a Fizdale, Wright or Stackhouse actually getting the most out of the roster and letting their young roster compete for 48 minutes which will cost us draft position.

I am still curious if next season we have 10 games left and 2 games separate us from drafting a top 10 pick, what do they want our next coach to do in the situation that we have a returning KP with no minutes restriction and healthy talented young guys...

Again, I'm STILL trying to wrap my head around what it means to be for the tank.
 
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