2024 U.S. Presidential Election Thread: Donald Trump wins & will return to the White House; GOP wins U.S. Senate & U.S. House

[ItWasMeThough]

But again, doesn't that go back to how ignorant and uninformed the American public is?

GOP is:

• Anti-union
• Doesn't support higher wages for workers (Some of them are quasi-liberterian and don't believe in a minimum wage at all)
• Doesn't support paid family leave
• Doesn't support worker based regulations (worker safety, etc.)
• Doesn't tend to support more robust unemployment programs
• Doesn't support a social safety net (so when employees are out of work, they are still provided some of the services they need through government programs)
• Doesn't support public healthcare so that even when employees are laid off of work, they have still have access to these services.

I'm trying not to be elitist and forcing myself not to use the word "stupid", but in a country that was not ignorant and uninformed, how could that party possibly be construed as giving a rat's ass about the working class? What, vibes?

my exact sentiments! That’s why you have poor folks bragging about China paying for the tariffs. These folks don’t even know what they are voting for.

 

[eastside313]

But again, doesn't that go back to how ignorant and uninformed the American public is?

GOP is:

• Anti-union
• Doesn't support higher wages for workers (Some of them are quasi-liberterian and don't believe in a minimum wage at all)
• Doesn't support paid family leave
• Doesn't support worker based regulations (worker safety, etc.)
• Doesn't tend to support more robust unemployment programs
• Doesn't support a social safety net (so when employees are out of work, they are still provided some of the services they need through government programs)
• Doesn't support public healthcare so that even when employees are laid off of work, they have still have access to these services.

I'm trying not to be elitist and forcing myself not to use the word "stupid", but in a country that was not ignorant and uninformed, how could that party possibly be construed as giving a rat's ass about the working class? What, vibes?

For some reason people want to use all the big words and analogies and theories to why Kamala lost. But it comes down to what this country has been for hundreds of years. Dumb and sexist and racist. Simple as that.

 

[wire28]

For some reason people want to use all the big words and analogies and theories to why Kamala lost. But it comes down to what this country has been for hundreds of years. Dumb and sexist and racist. Simple as that.

Yep we can waste each others times pontificating on various ways the dems have failed the nation (while managing to do all the progressive things @MAKAVELI25 listed), or we can leave it to smooth mind to do it for us and just recognize 51% of the country are idiots and we just need to trick a couple million of them into voting in their best interest every four years to keep some semblance of productivity going

 

[mastermind]

But again, doesn't that go back to how ignorant and uninformed the American public is?

GOP is:

• Anti-union
• Doesn't support higher wages for workers (Some of them are quasi-liberterian and don't believe in a minimum wage at all)
• Doesn't support paid family leave
• Doesn't support worker based regulations (worker safety, etc.)
• Doesn't tend to support more robust unemployment programs
• Doesn't support a social safety net (so when employees are out of work, they are still provided some of the services they need through government programs)
• Doesn't support public healthcare so that even when employees are laid off of work, they have still have access to these services.

I'm trying not to be elitist and forcing myself not to use the word "stupid", but in a country that was not ignorant and uninformed, how could that party possibly be construed as giving a rat's ass about the working class? What, vibes?

Of course Americans are ignorant, but you need them to vote for you. Just saying they are ignorant and can’t be reached does what?

And also, Dems have a track record of not supporting the things you listed as well. It’s why I constantly say that outside of the top 10% of the wealthy, Americans do not vote for their own interests.

 

[MAKAVELI25]

Of course Americans are ignorant, but you need them to vote for you. Just saying they are ignorant and can’t be reached does what?

And also, Dems have a track record of not supporting the things you listed as well. It’s why I constantly say that outside of the top 10% of the wealthy, Americans do not vote for their own interests.

There has to be some nuance when we discuss things and there also needs to be some intellectual honesty. We can admit the Democrats are not perfect and have also been captured by corporate interests without acting like they are the exact same party as Republicans.

Are the Democrats better on those issues I listed or no? And this should not be a hard one if you're responding in good faith.

 

[Scaaar]

And let’s not act like the consumption isn’t what keeps our economy afloat. Telling people they felt broke despite it preventing a recession, is beyond stupid.

Definitely is what's keeping it churning. I just point out when people are being disingenuous about the economy. Like a coworker of mines that complains about the price of food and gas but he just bought an 80k Expedition with a payment that's more than his mortgage. I also know chics that gripe as well but they're spending $700-800 a month just on hair, nails, lashes, etc. People have money for their wants and buy it without hesitation. But when their needs are on the table that's when they're price conscious lol

 

[Scaaar]

I hate to sound elitist, but you cannot address the structural problems in electoral politics without talking about how uninformed and ignorant that most Americans are about their government. This is an argument I was having with @King Kreole a few days before the election.

How is it possible that working class Americans think that the GOP is the Party working towards their best interests?

• This is not a defense of Democrats. All politicians are to some extent corrupt, and the Democratic Party has also been captured by corporate interests.

Looking at the last 90 years of governance (a period I would consider the modern period of the Presidency), outside of Eisenhower and Nixon, what have any Republican Presidents done to make the lives of everyday, working class Americans better? Keep in mind that Eisenhower and Nixon were heavily influenced by FDR and New Deal policies in the same way Obama and Clinton were influenced by Reagan-ite neo-liberal policies:

Social Security- Democratic President/Congress
NLRA- Major unionizing protection law- Democratic President/Congress
Medicare- Democratic President/Congress
Medicaid- Democratic President/Congress
Obamacare- Democratic President/Congress
OSHA (worker's safety)- Nixon, who never had a Republican Senate/House
EPA- Nixon, who never had a Republican Senate/House

Yes, NAFTA was signed by Bill Clinton, but if I'm remembering correctly, this was the brainchild of Reagan then HW, and voted for by more Republicans than Dems in Congress.

After the Nixon Presidency, what exactly have Republicans done to make the lives of working people better? (I'm asking this humbly, because maybe some of you know something I don't)

How can the modern day Republican Party possibly be perceived as the Party that's for the working class by anyone other than a numbskull? Why, because they don't say things like "LatinX" and they want to push trans people out of open society?

If calling some people just dumb makes me an elitists I'll gladly take that title they're proud of being ill informed or they just would rather stay in their bubble of lies than face the facts

 

[wire28]

There has to be some nuance when we discuss things and there also needs to be some intellectual honesty. We can admit the Democrats are not perfect and have also been captured by corporate interests without acting like they are the exact same party as Republicans.

Are the Democrats better on those issues I listed or no? And this should not be a hard one if you're responding in good faith.

*prepares myself for the cirque du soleil level acrobatics*

 

[Tony D'Amato]

Almost like genocides are unpopular

Dems have so many other demos they losin that this is minor

 

[the next guy]

I hate to sound elitist, but you cannot address the structural problems in electoral politics without talking about how uninformed and ignorant that most Americans are about their government. This is an argument I was having with @King Kreole a few days before the election.

How is it possible that working class Americans think that the GOP is the Party working towards their best interests?

• This is not a defense of Democrats. All politicians are to some extent corrupt, and the Democratic Party has also been captured by corporate interests.

Looking at the last 90 years of governance (a period I would consider the modern period of the Presidency), outside of Eisenhower and Nixon, what have any Republican Presidents done to make the lives of everyday, working class Americans better? Keep in mind that Eisenhower and Nixon were heavily influenced by FDR and New Deal policies in the same way Obama and Clinton were influenced by Reagan-ite neo-liberal policies:

Social Security- Democratic President/Congress
NLRA- Major unionizing protection law- Democratic President/Congress
Medicare- Democratic President/Congress
Medicaid- Democratic President/Congress
Obamacare- Democratic President/Congress
OSHA (worker's safety)- Nixon, who never had a Republican Senate/House
EPA- Nixon, who never had a Republican Senate/House

Yes, NAFTA was signed by Bill Clinton, but if I'm remembering correctly, this was the brainchild of Reagan then HW, and voted for by more Republicans than Dems in Congress.

After the Nixon Presidency, what exactly have Republicans done to make the lives of working people better? (I'm asking this humbly, because maybe some of you know something I don't)

How can the modern day Republican Party possibly be perceived as the Party that's for the working class by anyone other than a numbskull? Why, because they don't say things like "LatinX" and they want to push trans people out of open society?

Because Dems also aided this by abandoning the working class.

The GOP now offer illusions of economic benefit and resentment to fill bellies. Dems have nothing to counter that, or refuse to counter it. This nation is broken and the only way to mend it is to get hyper local, imo.

But again, doesn't that go back to how ignorant and uninformed the American public is?

GOP is:

• Anti-union
• Doesn't support higher wages for workers (Some of them are quasi-liberterian and don't believe in a minimum wage at all)
• Doesn't support paid family leave
• Doesn't support worker based regulations (worker safety, etc.)
• Doesn't tend to support more robust unemployment programs
• Doesn't support a social safety net (so when employees are out of work, they are still provided some of the services they need through government programs)
• Doesn't support public healthcare so that even when employees are laid off of work, they have still have access to these services.

I'm trying not to be elitist and forcing myself not to use the word "stupid", but in a country that was not ignorant and uninformed, how could that party possibly be construed as giving a rat's ass about the working class? What, vibes?

This should be sent to the DNC. This is how you attack these issues. By the way. @MAKAVELI25 is right but this is marketing. Rather then show this to the public, Democrats hang out with celebrities and fundraise with Bezos, Google and them.

For some reason people want to use all the big words and analogies and theories to why Kamala lost. But it comes down to what this country has been for hundreds of years. Dumb and sexist and racist. Simple as that.

Yep we can waste each others times pontificating on various ways the dems have failed the nation (while managing to do all the progressive things @MAKAVELI25 listed), or we can leave it to smooth mind to do it for us and just recognize 51% of the country are idiots and we just need to trick a couple million of them into voting in their best interest every four years to keep some semblance of productivity going

Black people wanted Hillary
Black people wanted Biden
Black people (especially women wanted Kamala)


The country is basic and dumb but take some responsibility. There is no need for us to be the face of the establishment. Kamala's favorability is still higher than Trump, so the platform was garbage.

 

[mastermind]

There has to be some nuance when we discuss things and there also needs to be some intellectual honesty. We can admit the Democrats are not perfect and have also been captured by corporate interests without acting like they are the exact same party as Republicans.

You can’t write the second sentence and say I am being intellectually dishonest.

The PRO Act was introduced to Congress in 2018. It passed the House but never got out of the Senate despite Dems holding the Senate for two congresses.

Dems had full control of government for Clinton, Obama and Biden and passed no union laws which probably coincided with the decline in union membership since 1980.

And that’s just on a federal level. State level Dems also let unions slip away.

That’s not saying they are the same party as the GOP, but it’s not letting them escape accountability.

Democrats Paid a Huge Price for Letting Unions Die

A new study suggests the Midwest would still be blue if Democrats hadn’t refused to prioritize labor’s needs under Obama, Clinton, and Carter.

nymag.com

The intellectually dishonest question is saying, “are the Dems better than the GOP on these issues,” without wanting to understand why those voters aren’t fukking with Dems.

It’s like that old saying (paraphrased), “I would rather someone call me a ****** to my face, then smile in my face and fukk me over behind my back. At least I know where I stand.”

 

[Champion]

Establishment Dems just lost everything, but you got people in here blaming Progressives.

 

[MAKAVELI25]

There has to be some nuance when we discuss things and there also needs to be some intellectual honesty. We can admit the Democrats are not perfect and have also been captured by corporate interests without acting like they are the exact same party as Republicans.

Are the Democrats better on those issues I listed or no? And this should not be a hard one if you're responding in good faith.

*prepares myself for the cirque du soleil level acrobatics*

You can’t write the second sentence and say I am being intellectually dishonest.

The PRO Act was introduced to Congress in 2018. It passed the House but never got out of the Senate despite Dems holding the Senate for two congresses.

Dems had full control of government for Clinton, Obama and Biden and passed no union laws which probably coincided with the decline in union membership since 1980.

And that’s just on a federal level. State level Dems also let unions slip away.

That’s not saying they are the same party as the GOP, but it’s not letting them escape accountability.

Democrats Paid a Huge Price for Letting Unions Die

A new study suggests the Midwest would still be blue if Democrats hadn’t refused to prioritize labor’s needs under Obama, Clinton, and Carter.

nymag.com

The intellectually dishonest question is saying, “are the Dems better than the GOP on these issues,” without wanting to understand why those voters aren’t fukking with Dems.

It’s like that old saying (paraphrased), “I would rather someone call me a ****** to my face, then smile in my face and fukk me over behind my back. At least I know where I stand.”

But of course

 

[re'up]

But again, doesn't that go back to how ignorant and uninformed the American public is?

GOP is:

• Anti-union
• Doesn't support higher wages for workers (Some of them are quasi-liberterian and don't believe in a minimum wage at all)
• Doesn't support paid family leave
• Doesn't support worker based regulations (worker safety, etc.)
• Doesn't tend to support more robust unemployment programs
• Doesn't support a social safety net (so when employees are out of work, they are still provided some of the services they need through government programs)
• Doesn't support public healthcare so that even when employees are laid off of work, they have still have access to these services.

I'm trying not to be elitist and forcing myself not to use the word "stupid", but in a country that was not ignorant and uninformed, how could that party possibly be construed as giving a rat's ass about the working class? What, vibes?

A lot of that is pure communication and messaging, and cultural/educational divides. Mutahfukkas aren't reading policy propasals or the NY Times. Like you said about the people posting in here.

And appealing to the sense of dignity and value in those class dynamics. Religion is still important in some of these places. Traditional family values. If people don't want to take the COVID vaccine, shrug it off. A leader has to speak to that shyt. Messaging has to be inclusive. The GOP is essentially anything goes. We will take anyone. You can't just run on what works in 'blue bubbles' like LA and SF, but increasingly even this is not as true as it was.

You can't explain the voter shift in places like San Diego with the idea that they all just turned racist in 2 election cycles. esp. where and who shifted.

 

[re'up]

Another warning sign: when I read NAOMI KLEIN's book Doppelganger last year, and what it warned about Bannon and the post COVID rightward shift online. When Naomi Klein is saying the GOP is doing something right, you have to fukking listen.