storyteller
Veteran
Timestamped to the part in the headline. The discussion prior is about Deval Patrick entering the race btw.
2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races
- Thread starter mc_brew
- Start date
Timestamped to the part in the headline. The discussion prior is about Deval Patrick entering the race btw.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Hold up. No one is saying she won't go for it, we're saying it won't pass in its current form. I genuinely believe she will go for it (starting point), and yes, I think most Liz voters think the same way.
got u. Do u believe that way for most her policies?
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Yes. Her entire career shows her to be genuine in her principles and dogged in pursuing them. There is obviously a question of prioritization, but it's the same question that every candidate/president faces.
Ok so if you ultimately don't think she's going to pass M4all. What do you want her to pass when it comes to healthcare?
Berniewood Hogan
IT'S BERNIE SANDERS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
I don't think anyone is going to pass M4A at this current juncture because the structural ideological limits of the current political environment supersede any progressive President's ambitions when it comes to M4A. While I am personally to the left of M4A in that I believe in a nationalized healthcare system akin to the NHS, given the current limits, I would like to see her sign the most expansive and progressive health care option possible. I predict that will most likely be a public option, but if the Overton window keeps being smashed leftward, then maaaybe it could even be Medicare-for-America or one of these other M4A knockoffs.
Ok so if the public option is what the end goal most likely will be. Why don't you just support someone who states that's their goal?
Do you believe that if it starts at public option it will end up not being a public option? If so, why do you believe that?
If the whole goal is to start from the as far left as possible why don't you just support nationalized healthcare or Bernie? Why try to rationalize something you know wont happen?
these are genuine questions btw, I am seriously would like others to explain this to me.
What happened the last time Obama and Biden pushed for a public option in a more favorable political climate?
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Yes, I believe that if you start at a public option you will end up with something less than a public option. I believe that because that's how policy negotiations work. It's what happened with Obamacare. Your opening position should never be your line in the sand. Republicans and Centrist Dems, who are relevant actors in the passage of any healthcare bill and who want less than the public option, are not just going to give up without fighting for their position and extracting concessions.
Show me the candidate advocating for a fully nationalized healthcare system and I would support them in this area. But as it stands, the most expansive, progressive option on the table right now is M4A, and there are two candidates supporting it, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. I support both of them in this area. It's not rationalizing something that won't happen, it's fighting for the most you can get.
Why do you group me in this category? We have had several respectful debates about Warren and Biden. I have answered your questions every time in a non combative way. And she is running on issues I support. I support tuition free college. Warren is running on that. I support M4A. Warren is running on that. I support tuition loan debt forgiveness. I support That She is runner on correcting historical redlining. I support that.
I agree. I never claimed that most Black people don’t support Biden. I have argued that it is mostly because of his relationship with Obama and not policy.
What happened the last time Obama and Biden pushed for a public option in a more favorable political climate?
He added it in later during his campaign. The ACA was his main message. In fact, Obama gave a major address in Iowa on May 29, 2007, outlining his health care plan in considerable detail. There's not one mention of the public option in his speech.
The Democratic primary's big health care battle was over whether there should be an individual mandate that required people to buy health insurance. Candidates Hillary Clinton and John Edwards said there should be a mandate; Obama was opposed. Obama said that people don't buy insurance because they can't afford it, not because they don't want to, and it was wrong to force them. When negotiations began on health care legislation in 2009, however, Obama changed his position and supported the mandate. (We gave him a Full Flop on our Flip-O-Meter .) So during the campaign, the public option was not mentioned much.
Public option was in Obama's platform
I get your point. But it's disingenuous. Obama never truly pushed for the Public Option. No one did.
But you support M4All in hopes that we get a public option. Obama ran on the ACA and got it done. Bidens running on the public option, why don't you think he'll get it done if thats what you truly want/feel will happen?
No current M4A bill will pass in their current proposed formats.
The point is frameworks.
Even Bernie doesn't have a concrete plan.
The point is frameworks.
Even Bernie doesn't have a concrete plan.
You are misinterpreting my position. I fully support M4A and think it is the right policy. I just don’t think it can get passed in the next few years. I would settle for a public option. To be clear I am hoping that M4A is passed.
You stated that Obama ran on the ACA. This is only partly correct. In 08 a public option was apart of Obama’s healthcare plan. Obama and his team negotiated it away to the republicans, and conservative Democrats. The ACA we got was a compromise. It is basically Romney Care. The ACA is the healthcare plan the republicans was running on in the 90s. Nixon supporters a similar healthcare plan when he was president. Republicans hate the ACA simply because Obama supported it.
Biden is basically running on restoring the ACA provisions that Trump has taking out, along with a public option. This is almost exactly like Obama Healthcare plan in 08. And like I stated they stripped the public opinion out during negotiation. I don’t see why that wouldn’t happen again. Especially since he is using the exact same strategy that lost the public option in 09-2010.
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