Warren Moon

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
8,656
Reputation
760
Daps
25,587
You are misinterpreting my position. I fully support M4A and think it is the right policy. I just don’t think it can get passed in the next few years. I would settle for a public option. To be clear I am hoping that M4A is passed.

You stated that Obama ran on the ACA. This is only partly correct. In 08 a public option was apart of Obama’s healthcare plan. Obama and his team negotiated it away to the republicans, and conservative Democrats. The ACA we got was a compromise. It is basically Romney Care. The ACA is the healthcare plan the republicans was running on in the 90s. Nixon supporters a similar healthcare plan when he was president. Republicans hate the ACA because simply because Obama supported it.

Biden is basically running on restoring the ACA provisions that Trump has taking out, along with a public option. This is almost exactly like Obama Healthcare plan in 08. And like I stated they stripped the public opinion out during negotiation. I don’t see way that wouldn’t happen again. Especially since he is using the exact same strategy that lost the public option in 09-2010.

Obama did not run on the public option. He states that himself he added it in very late in his campaign as a negotiation tactic. He That’s why that argument makes no sense to me.

Bidens plan and Obamas plan are NOWHERE near the same. You are misinformed Obama at no point pushed the Public Option, thats just the truth.

Public option was in Obama's platform


With a health care vote in the Senate approaching, President Barack Obama discussed reform and compromise in an interview with the Washington Post .

The reporter asked Obama what his general thoughts were on compromise in the political process.

Obama launched into a defense of the health care bill, an area where some of his liberal supporters have accused him of compromising too much.

"Nowhere has there been a bigger gap in the perceptions of compromise and the reality of compromise than in the health care bill," Obama said.

He then listed several things he called for during the campaign that he considers to be part of the bill, including coverage for the uninsured, new rules for insurance companies, tax breaks for small businesses and measures that rein in growing costs.

"Every single criteria for reform that I put forward is in this bill," Obama said. "It is true that the Senate version does not have a public option, and that has become, I think, a source of ideological contention between the left and the right. But I didn't campaign on a public option. I think it is a good idea. But as I said in that speech on Sept. 9 (on health care), it is just one small element of a broader reform effort. And so we don't feel that the core elements to help the American people that I campaigned on and that we've been fighting for all year have been compromised in any significant way."

We got an e-mail from a reader pointing out Obama's statement that he "did not campaign on a public option." How can that be, the reader asked, when the public option was clearly part of Obama's platform?

We agree that the public option was part of Obama's platform. It's a promise we've listed in our database of Obama's campaign promises.

It says that through a new health care exchange, "any American will have the opportunity to enroll in the new public plan or an approved private plan, and income-based sliding scale tax credits will be provided for people and families who need it."

But, we also have to say that the public option was not a very prominent part of Obama's platform. We added the promise in August after the public option became an intense part of the debate. We were able to find the proposal pretty quickly after looking in Obama's campaign literature, but he didn't discuss it very much during the campaign. That's true for both the general election and the Democratic primary.

If you look for mentions of the public option in Obama's speeches or comments to voters, you'll find very few. In fact, Obama gave a major address in Iowa on May 29, 2007, outlining his health care plan in considerable detail. There's not one mention of the public option in his speech.

The Democratic primary's big health care battle was over whether there should be an individual mandate that required people to buy health insurance. Candidates Hillary Clinton and John Edwards said there should be a mandate; Obama was opposed. Obama said that people don't buy insurance because they can't afford it, not because they don't want to, and it was wrong to force them.

When negotiations began on health care legislation in 2009, however, Obama changed his position and supported the mandate. (We gave him a Full Flop on our Flip-O-Meter .)

So during the campaign, the public option was not mentioned much.

But since we track campaign promises, we believe candidates should be held accountable for all their promises, and that includes things they have in their campaign literature. It's up to voters to decide whether the public option -- Promise No. 518 -- is more or less important than Obama's other promises.

Obama's new claim is, "I didn't campaign on a public option." We will stipulate that it was not a particularly prominent part of his overall platform for health care. But we find that the public option was part of Obama's campaign materials, and that counts. So we rate his statement Barely True.



The first point in Bidens plan is the Public Option:

Giving Americans a new choice, a public health insurance option like Medicare. If your insurance company isn’t doing right by you, you should have another, better choice. Whether you’re covered through your employer, buying your insurance on your own, or going without coverage altogether, the Biden Plan will give you the choice to purchase a public health insurance option like Medicare. As in Medicare, the Biden public option will reduce costs for patients by negotiating lower prices from hospitals and other health care providers. It also will better coordinate among all of a patient’s doctors to improve the efficacy and quality of their care, and cover primary care without any co-payments. And it will bring relief to small businesses struggling to afford coverage for their employees.


These are entirely different plans :mindblown: You are misinformed.
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

The Original
WOAT
Supporter
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
305,741
Reputation
-34,224
Daps
615,999
Reppin
The Deep State
Ok so if the public option is what the end goal most likely will be. Why don't you just support someone who states that's their goal?

Do you believe that if it starts at public option it will end up not being a public option? If so, why do you believe that?

If the whole goal is to start from the as far left as possible why don't you just support nationalized healthcare or Bernie? Why try to rationalize something you know wont happen?

these are genuine questions btw, I am seriously would like others to explain this to me.
Gotta negotiate down.
 

Warren Moon

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
8,656
Reputation
760
Daps
25,587
Gotta negotiate down.

obama didn’t negotiate down for his Aca plan. Why would u think Biden couldnt?

The core of Obama’s plan got through the core of Biden’s plan can get through.

But you don’t think the core of Warrens plan will get through? Still makes no sense to me. Y’all doing mental gymnastics.
 

A.R.$

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2012
Messages
8,013
Reputation
630
Daps
20,513
Obama did not run on the public option. He states that himself he added it in very late in his campaign as a negotiation tactic. He That’s why that argument makes no sense to me.

Bidens plan and Obamas plan are NOWHERE near the same. You are misinformed Obama at no point pushed the Public Option, thats just the truth.

Public option was in Obama's platform


With a health care vote in the Senate approaching, President Barack Obama discussed reform and compromise in an interview with the Washington Post .

The reporter asked Obama what his general thoughts were on compromise in the political process.

Obama launched into a defense of the health care bill, an area where some of his liberal supporters have accused him of compromising too much.

"Nowhere has there been a bigger gap in the perceptions of compromise and the reality of compromise than in the health care bill," Obama said.

He then listed several things he called for during the campaign that he considers to be part of the bill, including coverage for the uninsured, new rules for insurance companies, tax breaks for small businesses and measures that rein in growing costs.

"Every single criteria for reform that I put forward is in this bill," Obama said. "It is true that the Senate version does not have a public option, and that has become, I think, a source of ideological contention between the left and the right. But I didn't campaign on a public option. I think it is a good idea. But as I said in that speech on Sept. 9 (on health care), it is just one small element of a broader reform effort. And so we don't feel that the core elements to help the American people that I campaigned on and that we've been fighting for all year have been compromised in any significant way."

We got an e-mail from a reader pointing out Obama's statement that he "did not campaign on a public option." How can that be, the reader asked, when the public option was clearly part of Obama's platform?

We agree that the public option was part of Obama's platform. It's a promise we've listed in our database of Obama's campaign promises.

It says that through a new health care exchange, "any American will have the opportunity to enroll in the new public plan or an approved private plan, and income-based sliding scale tax credits will be provided for people and families who need it."

But, we also have to say that the public option was not a very prominent part of Obama's platform. We added the promise in August after the public option became an intense part of the debate. We were able to find the proposal pretty quickly after looking in Obama's campaign literature, but he didn't discuss it very much during the campaign. That's true for both the general election and the Democratic primary.

If you look for mentions of the public option in Obama's speeches or comments to voters, you'll find very few. In fact, Obama gave a major address in Iowa on May 29, 2007, outlining his health care plan in considerable detail. There's not one mention of the public option in his speech.

The Democratic primary's big health care battle was over whether there should be an individual mandate that required people to buy health insurance. Candidates Hillary Clinton and John Edwards said there should be a mandate; Obama was opposed. Obama said that people don't buy insurance because they can't afford it, not because they don't want to, and it was wrong to force them.

When negotiations began on health care legislation in 2009, however, Obama changed his position and supported the mandate. (We gave him a Full Flop on our Flip-O-Meter .)

So during the campaign, the public option was not mentioned much.

But since we track campaign promises, we believe candidates should be held accountable for all their promises, and that includes things they have in their campaign literature. It's up to voters to decide whether the public option -- Promise No. 518 -- is more or less important than Obama's other promises.

Obama's new claim is, "I didn't campaign on a public option." We will stipulate that it was not a particularly prominent part of his overall platform for health care. But we find that the public option was part of Obama's campaign materials, and that counts. So we rate his statement Barely True.



The first point in Bidens plan is the Public Option:

Giving Americans a new choice, a public health insurance option like Medicare. If your insurance company isn’t doing right by you, you should have another, better choice. Whether you’re covered through your employer, buying your insurance on your own, or going without coverage altogether, the Biden Plan will give you the choice to purchase a public health insurance option like Medicare. As in Medicare, the Biden public option will reduce costs for patients by negotiating lower prices from hospitals and other health care providers. It also will better coordinate among all of a patient’s doctors to improve the efficacy and quality of their care, and cover primary care without any co-payments. And it will bring relief to small businesses struggling to afford coverage for their employees.


These are entirely different plans :mindblown: You are misinformed.
:gucci:You like to misinterpret statements. When did I say he campaigned on the public option? I said the public option was part of his healthcare plan in 08, and that you were partly right that he campaigned on the ACA. That is not opinion, it is a fact. It is nothing to debate.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/factsheet_healthcare.pdf

The first thing mentioned in his plan is to create a new national health plan. The second thing mention is to create a national exchange for private insurance. But besides that Obama stated he supported the public option while he was president



The plans are not entirely different. Biden Plan is the ACA with a public option. Which is not the worse thing in the world, if the plan doesn’t get watered down. However, as I stated before, almost all plans get watered down. That is why Biden starting point is problematic. I don’t trust Biden to stand up to the insurance lobby and truly fight for national healthcare. Most likely we will get the same results we got with the ACA, and maybe they will lower the Medicare age to 55.
 
Last edited:

Warren Moon

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
8,656
Reputation
760
Daps
25,587
:gucci:You like to misinterpret statements. When did I say he campaigned on the public option? I said the public option was part of his healthcare plan in 08, and that you were partly right that he campaigned on the ACA. That is not opinion, it is a fact. It is nothing to debate.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/factsheet_healthcare.pdf

The first thing mentioned in his plan is to create a new national health plan. The second thing mention is to create a national exchange for private insurance. But besides that Obama stated he supported the public option while he was president



The plans are not entirely different. Biden Plan is the ACA with a public option. Which is not the worse thing in the world, if the plan doesn’t get watered down. However, as I stated before, almost all plans get watered down. That is way Biden starting point is problematic. I don’t trust Biden to stand up to the insurance lobby and truly fight for national healthcare. Most likely we will get the same results we got with the ACA, and maybe that will lower the Medicare age to 55.


So the core of Obamas plan was the ACA, it was passed.

The core of Biden's plan is the Public Option. Why do you not think that will pass?

You're comparing Obamas to Biden's when Obama's public options was a small contingency of the ACA plan. The public option IS Biden's plan. Why do you think the core of Biden's plan won't pass? Why not just choose a small contingency of his plan like drug prices or drug advertising spending, small aspects of his plan like Obama had with the public option being a small aspect of the ACA.

Your argument makes no sense because your attempting to equate an aspect of Obamas plan not getting through to the very core of Bidens plan. Thats a false equivalency
 
Last edited:

No1

Retired.
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
29,608
Reputation
4,691
Daps
65,682
I'm sorry but 10 candidates left is too many at this point in the game, DNC requirements are too lax.

They need to get about half these candidates out the paint by the end of the year. :beli:
If they went the other way they’d be accused of suppressing grassroots.
 
Top