115th Congress defunds ACA: Senate: 51-48 House:227-198; Executive Order signed 1/20

Dr. Acula

Dr. Acula

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jilla82 said:
Im not saying I agree or disagree...but do the pro Obamacare people realize the effect it has had on small business (and other government regulation)?

This is something I never really hear about when talking to hardcore liberals.
A lot of the anger on the right stems from this very issue...small businesses are being pushed out FAST!

In the last few years...my premiums have gone from $160 a month, to just about $500 a month (im a single man with no kids)...now imagine how that hurts your average business owner.


Black people need to really step back and realize this stuff effects us the most.
We need a class of business owners...and as time moves on...its going to be harder and harder (to damn near impossible) to get it going because of an increased government regulation.

Large corporations are taking over fast...and swallowing up everything.
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I've heard from small businness owners who said that Obamacare actually allowed them to get affordable healthcare. So the exact opposite you're saying. Not saying you're lying and based on everything I've read it's more about what income you're bringing in.

Also the issue here isn't that Obamacare is perfect. Even democrats are saying that. What they are saying is that it needs real reform. Medicare and social security were revamped after implementations. In the case of social security I think they did a complete revamp in the 50s.

This is how social programs evolve and become better. Republicans over the past six years even at the behest of Obama himself refused to offer solutions to the issues with it. The skyrocket premiums were partially due to republicans refusing to implement funding mechanisms to make the plan work as intended. Insurance companies per the plan were guaranteed reimbursement for costs in joining the system. When it came time to pay out those reimbursements, republicans refused to fund that part of the plan. In response, insurance companies increased rates.

Republicans purposely sabotaged it to fail because its political football and why they don't have a solution now. They have no intention to provide real tangible solutions.
 
David_TheMan

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Behelit said:
I've heard from small businness owners who said that Obamacare actually allowed them to get affordable healthcare. So the exact opposite you're saying. Not saying you're lying and based on everything I've read it's more about what income you're bringing in.

Also the issue here isn't that Obamacare is perfect. Even democrats are saying that. What they are saying is that it needs real reform. Medicare and social security were revamped after implementations. In the case of social security I think they did a complete revamp in the 50s.

This is how social programs evolve and become better. Republicans over the past six years even at the behest of Obama himself refused to offer solutions to the issues with it. The skyrocket premiums were partially due to republicans refusing to implement funding mechanisms to make the plan work as intended. Insurance companies per the plan were guaranteed reimbursement for costs in joining the system. When it came time to pay out those reimbursements, republicans refused to fund that part of the plan. In response, insurance companies increased rates.

Republicans purposely sabotaged it to fail because its political football and why they don't have a solution now. They have no intention to provide real tangible solutions.
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SS isn't good though its literrally a transfer of wealth from the young to the old, there are no accounts or balanced money fiscal responsiblities to it. On top of that, studies show those who use SS spend more money than they have put into it. The real fukked up part is, there was a county in texas that was able to opt out of SS, they were able to take the same amount of money and put it in a private fund for the individuals in the county and they got more money back than they would have with SS.

The notion that social programs evolve and become better when they literally have no incentive to evolve, because they can rely on the government to either cut benefits or print money out of then air to fund themselves should tell you that a more private market oriented solution would be overwhelmingly better for those involved in such systems. Medicaid and SS specifically.

Republicans didn't sabotage anything by the way, they were sabotaged from the beginning in execution, that said both parties raided funds and are content to no fix the central flaw of these programs which is that they provide no market feed back.
 
David_TheMan

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Mr swag said:
I don't not think he has his ear. Trump won three states by a football stadium. He can't afford to piss off 20 million people
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He is president for 4 years and probably won't run a 2nd term. He is a lame duck already, so the notion that he is doing it for "the people" doesn't carry much weight IMHO.
Someone who has his ear told him its a bad deal and will make him look bad and I think thats all it took, I can see that being his whole presidential strategy.
 
Dr. Acula

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David_TheMan said:
SS isn't good though its literrally a transfer of wealth from the young to the old, there are no accounts or balanced money fiscal responsiblities to it. On top of that, studies show those who use SS spend more money than they have put into it. The real fukked up part is, there was a county in texas that was able to opt out of SS, they were able to take the same amount of money and put it in a private fund for the individuals in the county and they got more money back than they would have with SS.

The notion that social programs evolve and become better when they literally have no incentive to evolve, because they can rely on the government to either cut benefits or print money out of then air to fund themselves should tell you that a more private market oriented solution would be overwhelmingly better for those involved in such systems. Medicaid and SS specifically.

Republicans didn't sabotage anything by the way, they were sabotaged from the beginning in execution, that said both parties raided funds and are content to no fix the central flaw of these programs which is that they provide no market feed back.
Click to expand...
Republicans did sabatoge it and led directly to the spike in premiums.

I'll just say that I and others don't believe in the invisible hand of the free market to provide solutions to all of social problems. Some things shouldn't be incentivized by profits. Healthcare, schools, military, etc. In fact Obamacare problem is it didn't go far enough. Insurance industry needs to be wiped out and a public option should have been instituted. Profit incentives led to insurance agencies to deny people who had lifelong conditions such as asthma to increase their bottom line. Social goods should not be profit driven.

Also the idea of "young funding the old" isn't necessarily the case and the old is utilizing funds they have paid into the system themselves. Now if you get rid of SS for the young and don't refund them the money they paid into it then you have a point.

I notice you mentioned Medicaid but not Medicare by the way. Maybe because Medicare is a well liked and working program. Which Obamacare made solvent for the foreseeable future by the way.
 
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Behelit said:
Republicans did sabatoge it and led directly to the spike in premiums.

I'll just say that I and others don't believe in the invisible hand of the free market to provide solutions to all of social problems. Some things shouldn't be incentivized by profits. Healthcare, schools, military, etc. In fact Obamacare problem is it didn't go far enough. Insurance industry needs to be wiped out and a public option should have been instituted. Profit incentives led to insurance agencies to deny people who had lifelong conditions such as asthma to increase their bottom line. Social goods should not be profit driven.

Also the idea of "young funding the old" isn't necessarily the case and the old is utilizing funds they have paid into the system themselves. Now if you get rid of SS for the young and don't refund them the money they paid into it then you have a point.

I notice you mentioned Medicaid but not Medicare by the way. Maybe because Medicare is a well liked and working program. Which Obamacare made solvent for the foreseeable future by the way.
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No they didn't, it did what every economists predicted, and what it was designed to do, spike premiums at the expense of the young and healthy for the benefit of the sick.

You don't have to believe in market solutions, that say I and others do agree with that route. You say some things don't function adquetately with market incentives, i disagree, school, healthcare, defense would be provided more efficiently with market incentives than government control with no market feedback.

Single payer will only compound the problems that exist in obamacare, instead of of higher premiums, it iwll just come with crazy high taxes and product rationing, via denial of care or waiting lines, we see this in Canada already

I just didn't type medicare, but its also a program that needs to go for the same reasons as medicaid, ss, and obamacare.

Again there is too much focus on what can be done to pay exxtravagent medical prices, instead of attacking the government reasons for the high medical prices in the first place. more medical schools means more doctors and lowers cost of medicine, remove the FDA, decrease cost of getting medicine on the market, remove ridiculous medical patent laws on IP, and you further drive down drug and utility costs in the medical field, there are so many things we can do to greatly lower the cost of treatment and medicine, but they are ignored for wealth transfers to the poor or to multinational corporations or medical cartels.

IMHO
 
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88m3 said:
fighting for keeping 20+ million insured until we can have universal healthcare isn't stupid
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There isn't a progression to universal healthcare if you're not fighting for it. If you think that's the case, it'll take 100 years to get universal healthcare in America. Even Obama's universal insurance is at risk. If it dies, how do you think Universal healthcare will happen in your lifetime?
 
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