115th Congress defunds ACA: Senate: 51-48 House:227-198; Executive Order signed 1/20

[Dr. Acula]

Society can most definitely exist without without the threat of force of a group of elites, and in general people generally find ways to work with each other and keep a peace, typically your laws and roads developed before there was a state as well, we saw this with the native american tribes having clearings and roadways that the white europeans seemed to think appeared by magic. That said I'm of the opinion that relaying on the old tradition of praising of violence and kings or oligarchs is just a cover, it isn't neccesary to function in society and we see that everyday in jobs (organizations built up, heirachy built up, rules either accepted or rejected and party leaving) we see it in religious communities Mormons or Minnanites or Amish, you see it all the time, spontaneous order, and the services that you would say aid in keeping the peace or enablihg trade, I think could be performed commercially.

How would this work in large urban centers like manhattan and Chicago? Let's folllow the logical conclusion here. You may have mentioned it but what do you view the role of government.

Are you advocating American society regresses to small clusters of rural towns?

 

[David_TheMan]

How would this work in large urban centers like manhattan and Chicago? Let's folllow the logical conclusion here. You may have mentioned it but what do you view the role of government.

Are you advocating American society regresses to small clusters of rural towns?

No i'm not advocating society regress or expand. the people in population clusters will always pick what they want to do.
As for large urban center, manhattan and Chicago were both built up with services offered privately like electricity, gas, and etc. So my solution doesn't remove those features from life. Same with roads, there were roads and trade routes to chicago before state funded roads.

That said I think asking how it would work is pretty vague, what specifically are you talking about with regard to how it would work?

 

[Dr. Acula]

No i'm not advocating society regress or expand. the people in population clusters will always pick what they want to do.
As for large urban center, manhattan and Chicago were both built up with services offered privately like electricity, gas, and etc. So my solution doesn't remove those features from life. Same with roads, there were roads and trade routes to chicago before state funded roads.

That said I think asking how it would work is pretty vague, what specifically are you talking about with regard to how it would work?

The idea that not centralizing governance of society in a densely populated city of millions of people sounds incredibly foolish. Removing all the heavy language you used for what is essentially representives in a representative government, I have high doubts you can effectively maintain order in a society without some form of government control with this many people

Also these cities had a healthy mix of private and public investments. It's not one thing or another.

 

[Mr swag]

So millions of people with lose their health coverage next January with nothing to replace it LOL

 

[David_TheMan]

The idea that not centralizing governance of society in a densely populated city of millions of people sounds incredibly foolish. Removing all the heavy language you used for what is essentially representives in a representative government, I have high doubts you can effectively maintain order in a society without some form of government control with this many people

Also these cities had a healthy mix of private and public investments. It's not one thing or another.

Nothing wrong with government or centralization of government, its the type of government, specifially the state, the government that operates solely on its monopoly of violence. Nah, what i'm saying isnt essentially a representative form of government, that would be the US and I've clearly said how I disagree with this government.

I disagree with the contention that government is needed to control people, government again typically codifies norms that peoople develop themselves, it doesn't create the codes out of thin air initially. So my concern is never with people being left alone, they will find and develop a system of order themselves naturally.

Yes they have a mix of private and public investment, that is a given in the state, that said my argument isn't what they have had, its what they need or require going forward. IMHO

 

[jilla82]

Im not saying I agree or disagree...but do the pro Obamacare people realize the effect it has had on small business (and other government regulation)?

This is something I never really hear about when talking to hardcore liberals.
A lot of the anger on the right stems from this very issue...small businesses are being pushed out FAST!

In the last few years...my premiums have gone from $160 a month, to just about $500 a month (im a single man with no kids)...now imagine how that hurts your average business owner.


Black people need to really step back and realize this stuff effects us the most.
We need a class of business owners...and as time moves on...its going to be harder and harder (to damn near impossible) to get it going because of an increased government regulation.

Large corporations are taking over fast...and swallowing up everything.

 

[hashmander]

Im not saying I agree or disagree...but do the pro Obamacare people realize the effect it has had on small business (and other government regulation)?

I this is something I never really hear about when talking to hardcore liberals.
A lot of the anger on the right stems from this very issue...small businesses are being pushed out FAST!

In the last few years...my premiums have gone from $160 a month, to just about $500 a month (im a single man with no kids)...now imagine how that hurts your average business owner.


Black people need to really step back and realize this stuff effects us the most.
We need a class of business owners...and as time moves on...its going to be harder and harder (to damn near impossible) to get it going because of an increased government regulation.

Large corporations are taking over fast...and swallowing up everything.

wait so you buy on the exchange?

 

[jilla82]

wait so you buy on the exchange?

no.

The exchange is goofy IMO.
Last year I didnt work because I decided to end my online ventures.
But my money is still good.
I went on the exchange and they tried to enroll me in medicaid (whatever the government program is called).
I declined because thats a waste of tax payer money.

The prior year the exchange told me I made too much money to get any sort of discount

This is just one example of governments just throwing money away.

And lets not talk about my 1099/self employed friends....they get taxed up the ass.

The last few years have opened my eyes up to the divide on political issues.
Most people only pay attention to the dummies of the opposing groups.

A person on the right is going to base their assumptions of the left based on your pot head lazy ass democrat...and a liberal is going to base their assumptions of republicans based on racist rednecks.

Well...Ive talked to, and read some really good articles by Trump supporters that had some really good arguments as to why they voted for him.
Its not all about race...
...a lot of this shyt is about the working class, and small business owners position in this country.

Black people dont see it because we have the lowest entrepreneurial numbers in the this country.
and as a people...we dont talk about money, or teach our kids about money.

But the corporate takeover is real...and Clinton/Obama represent the corporate takeover to a lot of people.

 

[88m3]

Obamacare repeal costs: 3 million jobs gone, $1.5 trillion in lost gross state product

this is really serious

 

[FocusedDaily]

entitlement recievers will always be mad when entitlements are cut, those of use who either lost our plans or had plans prices go up significantly will be more than happy it was repealed.

You really think prices are coming down....

My sh!t went way up, but I chalked it up to more people who getting health care who couldn't afford it.
I pay a little more and people who can't afford it get helped.

Now it's going to be, we still pay more, and fcuk them poor people.

 

[David_TheMan]

You really think prices are coming down....

My sh!t went way up, but I chalked it up to more people who getting health care who couldn't afford it.
I pay a little more and people who can't afford it get helped.

Now it's going to be, we still pay more, and fcuk them poor people.

Yeah prices will come down if they get rid of the forced aspect and they will come down than they were pre-Obama care if we can get the state restrictions removed as well.

Mine damn near doubled, it didn't happen because you were helping anyone, it happened because companies had to take on more risk, younger people were supposed to be used to eat up the cost (by raising our premiums) for those who had pre-existing conditions and high risk.

If you want to help people, donate your money to them, I would like my money for myself so I can save up and do more of what I want to do, like buy farmland that I'm saving up for. That said trying to position the stealing of my money and the making me pay higher than market price for my insurance so others who can't afford it benefit isn't right to me, my life doesn't exist for the benefit of others and those who can take advantage of what I produce.

 

[hashmander]

no.

The exchange is goofy IMO.
Last year I didnt work because I decided to end my online ventures.
But my money is still good.
I went on the exchange and they tried to enroll me in medicaid (whatever the government program is called).
I declined because thats a waste of tax payer money.

The prior year the exchange told me I made too much money to get any sort of discount

This is just one example of governments just throwing money away.

And lets not talk about my 1099/self employed friends....they get taxed up the ass.

The last few years have opened my eyes up to the divide on political issues.
Most people only pay attention to the dummies of the opposing groups.

A person on the left is going to base their assumptions of the left based on your pot head lazy ass democrat...and a liberal is going to base their assumptions of republicans based on racist rednecks.

Well...Ive talked to, and read some really good articles by Trump supporters that had some really good arguments as to why they voted for him.
Its not all about race...
...a lot of this shyt is about the working class, and small business owners position in this country.

Black people dont see it because we have the lowest entrepreneurial numbers in the this country.
and as a people...we dont talk about money, or teach our kids about money.

But the corporate takeover is real...and Clinton/Obama represent the corporate takeover to a lot of people.

wait so your $500 a month health care has nothing to do with the exchange (so basically nothing to do with obamacare). then you're telling me they thought your income was low enough to qualify for expanded medicaid in your state but you refused it out of some it's a waste of tax payer money to provide me with healthcare bullshyt? so you refuse free healthcare and are bytching about high premiums that you seek out on your own independent of the obamacare exchange?

 

[FocusedDaily]

Yeah prices will come down if they get rid of the forced aspect and they will come down than they were pre-Obama care if we can get the state restrictions removed as well.

Mine damn near doubled, it didn't happen because you were helping anyone, it happened because companies had to take on more risk, younger people were supposed to be used to eat up the cost (by raising our premiums) for those who had pre-existing conditions and high risk.

If you want to help people, donate your money to them, I would like my money for myself so I can save up and do more of what I want to do, like buy farmland that I'm saving up for. That said trying to position the stealing of my money and the making me pay higher than market price for my insurance so others who can't afford it benefit isn't right to me, my life doesn't exist for the benefit of others and those who can take advantage of what I produce.

The first Bolded part reaffirms exactly what I was saying. It costs more because they have to cover higher risk people now. I knew and understood that

The second Bolded part is what I disagree with. It's a different fundamental life philosophy.

Yeah, you have something now, but probably didn't always, and you might not always. But your thought process is definitely more typical, and I know and understand it well. We just disagree.

 

[David_TheMan]

The first Bolded part reaffirms exactly what I was saying. It costs more because they have to cover higher risk people now. I knew and understood that

The second Bolded part is what I disagree with. It's a different fundamental life philosophy.

Yeah, you have something now, but probably didn't always, and you might not always. But your thought process is definitely more typical, and I know and understand it well. We just disagree.

I never took something from someone that didn't belong to me, you are right we have very different philosophy regarding life.
No I didn't always have things, but I never demanded someone else give me something that they work for and I never will, that isn't compatible with my basic moral principle of doing unto others as I would have them do unto myself.
You are right we will simply have to agree to disagree.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

15 charts that show how Obamacare works now — and how Republicans would overhaul it