10 Facts That Clear Up Confusion Around What Exactly Is an Arab

[I.AM.PIFF]

@Akan/Igbo

The "average" Indian doesn't closely look to the pictures you posted. I can post pictures and articles about Jamaicans of Chinese decent, doesn't mean the average Jamaican looks like that.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

Yes it was a stupid dumb belief system based upon ignorance, similar to the ones where the European insisted that the Egyptians had to be of European stock rather than of Sub-Saharan African stock.

If you want to get into that type of ignorance; then the Romans called the Nordic, Germanic and Celt people of Northern Europe a bunch of savages and barbarians. What do you have to say about that?

I dont have anything to say about that because it's irrelevant to what we're talking about. The quotes from a medieval Arab historian clearly contradict your assertion that medieval Arabs were black in the same racial sense as a black African. They also show that skin color didn't matter much in a part of the world where everyone was some variation of brown, from light to dark.

 

[mbewane]

Quite a few. They don't look Black to you, because of the race mixing. The word Mari has not changed meaning, because it is representative of a region. What has changed is the color of the inhabitants of the land due to race mixing, specifically with the white women of the north. I understand what you are saying, because they do have whitish skin now as do most Jews; but that is not their beginnings. Btw, here is a chart showing the mitochondrial DNA of the people of Morocco and North Africa. We know for a fact that historically that these people were not White, because contemporaneous accounts of the people of that era referring to them as Moors and because we know that the spreaders of Islam were also not White. Now look at where these people mothers DNA typically comes from due to the Harems. Very heavily European.

https://mathildasanthropologyblog.w...co-and-north-african-mitochondrial-dna-study/

Breh I just broke down to you how the word changed meanings, how you gonna deny that

Listen, we can back and forth here but if you wanna say that Moroccans are Blacks like Senegalese or Congolese people are, do you, my eyes say otherwise, as they (Moroccans) do themselves. And who cares about what they WERE, I'm talking about how they are NOW. Everybody knows inhabitants of current Southern Italy didn't look like they do now, who cares

 

[Samori Toure]

@Akan/Igbo

The "average" Indian doesn't closely look to the pictures you posted. I can post pictures and articles about Jamaicans of Chinese decent, doesn't mean the average Jamaican looks like that.

The post has nothing to do with the average person from India. Those are the voices in your head telling you that.

 

[Samori Toure]

I dont have anything to say about that because it's irrelevant to what we're talking about. The quotes from a medieval Arab historian clearly contradict your assertion that medieval Arabs were black in the same racial sense as a black African. They also show that skin color didn't matter much in a part of the world where everyone was some variation of brown, from light to dark.

The quotes from medieval Arab historian about Indians has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Samori Toure]

Breh I just broke down to you how the word changed meanings, how you gonna deny that

Listen, we can back and forth here but if you wanna say that Moroccans are Blacks like Senegalese or Congolese people are, do you, my eyes say otherwise, as they (Moroccans) do themselves. And who cares about what they WERE, I'm talking about how they are NOW. Everybody knows inhabitants of current Southern Italy didn't look like they do now, who cares

Cac eyes said that the Egyptians looked like them. DNA testing didn't agree. That is my point. Nothing else. And I broke down the word Moor. We can disagree on the rest.

 

[Mr.Big Meat McGee]

All black people are not black-skinned. We've had a variety of ethnic groups ranging from very light to black-skinned. Light brown is still part of the African phenotype. Black people can give birth to albino children. Albino children can form groups and migrate. Migration over a long period of time leads to adaptation. Adaptation leads to physical changes due to the new environment. The new environment was harsh and had less resources than the old environment. People have something called RACIAL MEMORY...it's kin to animal instinct. Those "adapted people" went back home to find resources and were not welcome. They also bred with the native neanderthals in the area. This is why whites have 1-4% neanderthal DNA. Neanderthals did not live in Africa. You do not need FUR to survive in Africa. You do not need FUR to survive in NORTH AFRICA. Fur is a neanderthal trait. Arabs are extremely hairy people. There is zero physiological benefit to having thick stringy fur and light brown skin in a desert climate where melanin is the answer to the natural environmental factors.

Truee. Neanderthal DNA is only needed in cold climates.

 

[Mr.Big Meat McGee]

the original jews were black
the original arabs were black
the original chinese were black
the original native americans were black
the original europeans were black


okay, we get it

Everything was Black back then until they started mating with Sub categories of Homo ( ex. Neanderthals )

 

[Mr.Big Meat McGee]

we dismiss recent european sources that have been stained with modern racism. old european sources (especially the ancient greeks and romans) are consistent in their praise of africans and black people.

i got no problem with the og europeans. they spoke the truth and weren't clouded by the racism that emerged from the trans-atlantic slave trade. its the europeans that emerged post-slave trade and eugenics movement that have tried to white-wash history.

Lmaoo Ancient Greeks thought Germanic / "White" tribes were dirty. Read Socrates. Racism didn't really exist from Whites till around the 15th Century.

 

[Dreamer]

I'm just wondering what the people on here consider "black"?

Because I know for a fact in america all thise people you're referencing would be considered either black or a muslim (terrorist)in their minds.

So I personally think black was origin of everyone considered "black" today whether you're pure breed or not.

In America being "black" is determined upon certain conditions from idek know who.

I don't know if white people actually went hard and all in war mode towards what we consider black and white today

They went by country and tiny varied features like black hair or olive skin. They were tribal you don't look enough like me etc.

Idk if there racism was like it is here but i seriously doubt it.

But if Jesus ans Mohammed walked into America today they would not be considered white lol, whether you think they were black enough is pure preception. Whites in america would not call them white.

 

[I.AM.PIFF]

The post has nothing to do with the average person from India. Those are the voices in your head telling you that.

It does. When someone's talking about Indians, he's probably not talking about Jarawa or Onde.

 

[Swagnificent]

All this stuff has been addressed in other threads, not about to do it all again.

Can you address the 11th century quote that I cited?

Did you even watch the video of Wesley Muhammad posted on page 1? He explained this already.

There were two different groups that ruled over islam in its early history. The first caliphate was called the Ummayids. This was made up of Prophet Muhammads earliest followers. It was a pure arab ruling class. It is from this era (661-750 AD) that many of the quotes on the blackness of the original arabs comes from. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Caliphate

The ummayids were eventually suceeded by the Abassids who were heavily influenced by the persians. Eventually the BLACK ummayids fled to North Africa and Al-andulus (spain) creating the Moorish Empire. After the fall of the Ummayids (remember this was the group muhammad gave power to rule) Islam in Iraq/Iran and Arabia starting becoming white and persian.

So these quotes you are posting from the 11th century is when the face of who was an arab started to change. The same sources (if you look them up) placed Arabia among the "Bilad Al-Sudan" aka Land of the Blacks.

 

[Swagnificent]

Lmaoo Ancient Greeks thought Germanic / "White" tribes were dirty. Read Socrates. Racism didn't really exist from Whites till around the 15th Century.

co-sign. before the 15th century, people who only thoght in terms of tribe and ethnicity. it was europeans in the 15th century that created modern racism.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

There were two different groups that ruled over islam in its early history. The first caliphate was called the Ummayids. This was made up of Prophet Muhammads earliest followers. It was a pure arab ruling class. It is from this era (661-750 AD) that many of the quotes on the blackness of the original arabs comes from. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Caliphate

The quotes I cited were from Said Al-Andalusi, an Ummayad.

Ṣāʿid al‐Andalusī (1029–1070) was an Andalusi Muslim Qadi. He was born at Almería and died at Toledo. Said Al-Andalusi was a historian, philosopher of science and thought, and mathematical scientist with a special interest in astronomy. As an acclaimed Qadi in the functionary court at Toledo, he assembled a well-educated group of young, precision instrument makers, astronomers and scientists, the most renowned of whom was Al-Zarqali. He was the author of the treatise Rectification of Planetary Motions and Exposition of Observers' Errors and contributed to the Tables of Toledo.

The only work of Said's to survive intact is what has often been called his "history of science": Al‐tarif bi-tabaqat al-umam (Exposition of the Generations of Nations) of 1068. The "nations" being those who cultivated learning, such as Indians, Persians, Chaldeans, Egyptians,Greeks, Byzantines, Arabs and Jews (in contrast to others not disposed, such as Norsemen, Chinese, Africans, Russians, Alains, Turksand Berbers). He wrote other works such as: Jawāmiʿ akhbār al‐umam min al‐Arab wa‐l Ajam (Compendious History of Nations – Arab and Non‐Arab) and Maqālāt ahl al‐milal wa-l-nihal (Doctrines of the Adherents of Sects and Schools).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Said_Al-Andalusi

The quotes are from the above mentioned work (Exposition of the Generations of Nations). It's clear that the Arabs considered some Europeans and all Africans besides Egyptians to be uncivilized.

 

[Swagnificent]

The quotes I cited were from Said Al-Andalusi, an Ummayad.

Ṣāʿid al‐Andalusī (1029–1070) was an Andalusi Muslim Qadi. He was born at Almería and died at Toledo. Said Al-Andalusi was a historian, philosopher of science and thought, and mathematical scientist with a special interest in astronomy. As an acclaimed Qadi in the functionary court at Toledo, he assembled a well-educated group of young, precision instrument makers, astronomers and scientists, the most renowned of whom was Al-Zarqali. He was the author of the treatise Rectification of Planetary Motions and Exposition of Observers' Errors and contributed to the Tables of Toledo.

The only work of Said's to survive intact is what has often been called his "history of science": Al‐tarif bi-tabaqat al-umam (Exposition of the Generations of Nations) of 1068. The "nations" being those who cultivated learning, such as Indians, Persians, Chaldeans, Egyptians,Greeks, Byzantines, Arabs and Jews (in contrast to others not disposed, such as Norsemen, Chinese, Africans, Russians, Alains, Turksand Berbers). He wrote other works such as: Jawāmiʿ akhbār al‐umam min al‐Arab wa‐l Ajam (Compendious History of Nations – Arab and Non‐Arab) and Maqālāt ahl al‐milal wa-l-nihal (Doctrines of the Adherents of Sects and Schools).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Said_Al-Andalusi

The quotes are from the above mentioned work (Exposition of the Generations of Nations). It's clear that the Arabs considered some Europeans and all Africans besides Egyptians to be uncivilized.

now explain these quotes:

“…the predominant complexion of the Arabs is dark brownish black and that of the non-Arabs is white.” Ibn Mandour (14th Century)Lisaan al-Arab IV:209.

14th century Arab linguist and grammarian Ibn Mandhour spoke of in his text, Arab Lessons(or Lisaan al-Arab) noting that Arabs were distinguished by their brown-black skins and kinky hair, while fair skin and lank hair was characteristic of the Persians (Lisaan al-Arab ).

“The Arabs used to take pride in their brown and black complexion (al-sumra wa al-sawād) and they had a distaste for a white and fair complexion (al-ḥumra wa al-shaqra), and they used to say that such was the complexion of the non-Arabs.” Ibn Abi al-Hadid 13th c. citing the 9th century Al-Mubarrad in Sharh nahj al-balaghah, V:56.

The early accounts with descriptions of the earliest Arabians, along with physical anthropological evidence show that until approximately 600 years ago peoples of mainly African-Asiatic affiliation dominated most of peninsular Arabia. Though today a good number of people of the Arabian peninsula resemble the majority of the people of the Levant (Syria, Lebanon, Palestine). In fact certain writers of Syrian and Andalusian origin such as Al-Umari and Ibn Khaldun of the 14th century considered Arabia part of the “Bilad es-Sudan” - or lands of “the Sudan” or black peoples. Ibn Khaldun in particular includes the regions of Arabia (Hijaz, and Central Arabia or Nejd) in his chapter on “the 2nd zone of Sudan”.

As David Goldenberg writes, “This view of the Arab as dark-skinned is also found among other peoples, as is indicated by the term arap (i.e., Arab) meaning 'black African' in modern Turkish, Greek, and Russian, as well as in Yiddish” (Goldenberg, 2005, p. 124). And, this is the case because their peoples still have folk history of the original Arab invaders of their lands. The descriptions and depictions of the earliest Arabs or kara-Arapy (“black Arabs”) are not infrequent in their histories and folktales.
There is, for example, the texts of the Kurdish writer Ibn Athir (12th – 13th century) which speak of the Sulaym/Sulaim folk hero "Sa’d al-Aswad" as being literally black because he came from the “purest” Arabs. A Persian Jewish Targum to Song 1: 5 uses the phrase “black as the Kushytes who live in the tents of Kedar.” to describe peoples of north Arabia. (Goldenberg, p. 244) There are also numerous early indigenous paintings as found below.

Afro-Asiatica: An Odyssey in Black: January 2013


I think you are confusing ETHNOCENTRISM or ETHNIC BIAS with modern racism. at the end of the day, I view the quotes from arabs like al-andulasi in the same vein as the ancient greeks when it came to their views on the geramanic tribes of the north. one black skin peoples views of another black skin people.

are you ready to argue that the ancient greeks were not white because they were biased against the blonde hair germans?