Young black males need to stop thinking about traditional colleges

[Serious]

With a skilled trade I think the ceiling is lower but the risk is too.

Yeah this has always been my outlook on things.

It's like why be dental technician when you can be a doctor

Why be a pharmacy tech when you could be a pharmacist

etc....

Not saying that these are "bad" jobs, but to act like most trade school jobs don't have a ceiling is inadmissible. With that said, there are exceptions to the rule.... i

Heck, my brother is in sales, and he makes, triple my mom's income, without a degree.

My breh is , funny thing is he actually live the life most of these cats on the-coli claim to have....

 

[theworldismine13]

I agree with most of what you said, but I have to disagree with these satements.

There are plenty of avenues outside of corporate America that one can use to gain money and power. And most people involved in politics where grandfathered in. Those that do break their way into politics usually do so at a grass roots community level, as opposed to corporate America.

Maybe most people with salaries in the 100-500k range get a paycheck. But the majority of the 1% got there through inheritance and investments. Only the top CEO's of the top companies make millions. And they are probably someone impoortant's son and were already wealthy to begin with.

And graduates THAT GET A JOB. make more money. Currently in this country many college graduates are not being hired in their field if study. And as for opportunities I think a skilled trade might give you more in the long run. Or at least better job security without paying more money for school.

If you do go to college and you don't make it to the upper echelon of corporate America you have allot of debt that you may or may not be able to recover from.

thats fine, i wasnt trying to imply that its easy, 90 percent of people arent going to make it to the top, a lot of people will get stuck in the middle and there are ways to reach the top without going to college, getting stuck in the middle is not bad thing, because t*ts probably a decent an above average paycheck, on AVERAGE college is the way to go for more money and to get into corporate america

and every caveat that you are putting into college grads applies equally to skilled labor

once you get a way from the things like plumbing and mechanic, skilled labor careers are very low paying, you cant just pick a few high paying skilled jobs and say that is the way to go, there is no real evidence that skilled labor jobs pay more than college jobs, none, even the article that was posted as proof of the demand for skilled labor, said explictly that companies are not raising wages for skilled labor

and also the fact that college grads arent doing good doesnt transalate that people that dont go to college are doing good, when you look at the stats, the non college grads are doing worse in every way shape or form

and the whole debt thing is easily avoidable by going to public universities and scholarships or military

With a skilled trade I think the ceiling is lower but the risk is too.

yeah, like serious, i have to agree this is a fact and thats why my advice to young black youth would be to focus on taking the risk and focus on college, the risk is very much worth IMO, i guess that is where we disagree

but fundamentally there is no one way, the only thing that is important is education and creativity, you cant be creative doing something you dont like, so people should do whatever it is their feeling

to me people should go into trades because they are feeling it, but if you are talking about power and money, college is the obvious choice, skilled labor and trade schools do not represent more power and money than college

for every broke history major struggling with debt or unemployment there are two broke dental technicians struggling with debt (from their expensive trade school) and unemployment

if people are putting money first the title of this thread should be 'young black males should focus on medicine and STEM degrees'

 

[88m3]

People like op should be shot in the back of the kneck

 

[MeachTheMonster]

if people are putting money first the title of this thread should be 'young black males should focus on medicine and STEM degrees'

I don't think so. Everybody is not cut out for college let alone some of the most difficult majors. The line off thinking that you HAVE to go to college is why we have allot of people dropping out and creating extra debt. I think we should educate ourselves on all of the options available to us. Instead of saying one way is the way to go. I think currently we frown on skilled trades which turns some people away, when getting that skill is probably their best option.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I am tired of going back and forth with you, you dont get what Im saying. The dynamic of the world is changing, many college degrees are not as valuable as they used to be so using studies that cite the salaries and career trajectories of people who graduated 20-30 years ago is pointless. Its like calculating the average computer processor speed by averaging computer speeds from now with computer speeds from 30 years ago. Degrees, SKILLS, and CERTIFICATIONS are the way to prosperity, and people shouldn't be forced to choose one path over the other (which you do when you suggest the only way to money and "power" is through a college degree). Everyone is not cut out for college, period, but that doesn't mean those people aren't gonna be able to be self-sufficient and somewhat wealthy. They just need to find a path that suits them.

 

[theworldismine13]

I don't think so. Everybody is not cut out for college let alone some of the most difficult majors. The line off thinking that you HAVE to go to college is why we have allot of people dropping out and creating extra debt. I think we should educate ourselves on all of the options available to us. Instead of saying one way is the way to go. I think currently we frown on skilled trades which turns some people away, when getting that skill is probably their best option.

But how would that not also apply to trades, what makes you think young black males would be better at plumbing and dental tech than doctors and engineers?

and a lot of the debt that is being racked is coming from people going to trade schools

Student debt: The cost of learning a trade | Michigan Radio

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/business/14schools.html?pagewanted=all

Skyrocketing Private Loan Debt at Trade Schools | New America Blogs

The first article says

These students default on their loans twice as often as students from public colleges

.


So in other words if you are trying to avoid debt, you should avoid trade schools

I have no idea where you guys got the idea that trade schools are cheap, it's like you guys haven't gone to college and haven't gone to trade schools and yet are giving advice about it

I said from the beginning that people should do whatever they want, for whatever reason, becuase it's a free country, but if the main concern is power and money, (im not saying that should be the main concern because everybody is different) but if money and power is the issue then young black males should focus on stem degrees and medicine

Sure not everybody is built for stem and medicine, but not everybody is built to be a plumber either, so you ain't really saying anything by promoting trade schools

overall young black males should focus on graduating from high school, becuase overall they don't, y'all are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, there is not a wave of black males in college, what makes you think that? Young black males do not go to college compared to other groups so why are you saying they should avoid college? you think there should be less black males in college

 

[theworldismine13]

I am tired of going back and forth with you, you dont get what Im saying. The dynamic of the world is changing, many college degrees are not as valuable as they used to be so using studies that cite the salaries and career trajectories of people who graduated 20-30 years ago is pointless. Its like calculating the average computer processor speed by averaging computer speeds from now with computer speeds from 30 years ago. Degrees, SKILLS, and CERTIFICATIONS are the way to prosperity, and people shouldn't be forced to choose one path over the other (which you do when you suggest the only way to money and "power" is through a college degree). Everyone is not cut out for college, period, but that doesn't mean those people aren't gonna be able to be self-sufficient and somewhat wealthy. They just need to find a path that suits them.

you have show no evidence that people with certificates or skilled labor make more money than people with college degree but thanks for your prediction though

if what you are saying is true than black males should be on top pretty soon, because black males are the people least likely to go to college

Black Males Missing From College Campuses | America's Wire

REPORT: Only 4 Percent of College Students are Black Males

Males a distinct minority at HBCUs *| ajc.com

Black Males Not Graduating from College: Dr. Boyce Explains Why | Breaking News for Black America

so if you are concerned that too many young black males are going to college you can sleep good tonight, because young black males hardly go to college

so you are saying instead of going into debt in college, they should go into debt in trade school?




Student debt: The cost of learning a trade | Michigan Radio

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/business/14schools.html?pagewanted=all

Skyrocketing Private Loan Debt at Trade Schools | New America Blogs

 

[Rawtid]

Black people in general need financial education. It's no point in making a bunch of money if we don't make wise financial decisions once we get paid.

 

[rapbeats]

Black people in general need financial education. It's no point in making a bunch of money if we don't make wise financial decisions once we get paid.

black people that go to college and get a degree, then earn a good living are usually not the ones that have a serious issue with their finances. you are confusing the low end blackfolks with the high end.

the truth is, what the OP said is correct. what twism is saying is correct but its not what the OP is implying. yes trade school debt is something serious. thats going to those FAKE trade schools that just pop up out of now where. saying take these courses for 40k. it doesnt cost 40k to be an electrician or a plumber.

let me give yall real numbers.
L.A. trade tech.
they charge $46 per unit.
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Certificate of Completion - A.S.

A Certificate of Completion is awarded for successful completion of 48 units minimum in the required courses listed for the Associate in Science degree (below) with a “C” or better grade in each course.

lets do the math $46 x 48units =$2,208
thats not breaking anyone.

the next question
Do I need a high school diploma to attend LATTC?

2. No. Anyone who is 18 years of age or older qualifies for admission. Anyone 17 years of age or younger, who has completed all the necessary supplemental forms, also qualifies for admission
sounds like a lot of homies on that corner could be doing this brehs. sounds like a lot of ya homies you know still living with moms could do this brehs.

question #3. lets keep it 100 in here. every one is ready for the books like that. so they may flunk a few courses before they get it. thats fine. and sure that would be an additional $138.00(3units per course x $46/unit)
If I fail a class can I repeat it?

8. If you received a grade lower than a “C” you are allowed to repeat the class a up to a third time. Should you receive a failing grade again, you will need to submit a petition for special permission to take the class a third time.

again, lets keep it funky. we know stuff comes up and ya never know. you might have to drop a class.

11. What is a “W”?
12. Can I repeat a class if I previously received a “W”?

11. A “W” represents a Withdrawal. A “W” will appear on your record when you drop a class after the Drop with No Penalty deadline. It does not count toward your GPA, but indicates that you did not successfully complete a class.

12. Yes. Since a “W” is not technically a grade, you may repeat a class for which you have previously received a “W” without petitioning for special permission.

So how much would an electrician make fresh out of school is L.A.?

Salary.com Salary Wizard- Do you know what you're worth?

and
Salary.com Salary Wizard- Do you know what you're worth?

worse case scenario you're making $34k. thats more then enough to pay off of 2 grand that you spent on school. and thats WORSE case scenario.

lets make a work case scenario type of worker. Guy that drops out of high school in the 11th grade. so he's 17 years old now. decides to say forget it, i'm taking my GED. and i'm out. can't deal with the fake school system aka baby sitting system in some inner cities with poor schools.

he decides to go to L.A. trade tech and take the course i listed above. $2grand. he can get that in a loan. lets say cause he's young and dumb, he drops some classes, flunks others. lets say he doesnt finish the program until he's going on his 20th birthday. lets say it takes him 3 mos to find a job. at 20 years old he could be making $34k per year = $2 to 3k for tuition, lets throw on another $1000 for loan interest and books/gas/bus fare/train fare to get there. so now he's down to $30k round down. take the taxes. my man is still bringing home $1800 per month. , thats $900.00 every two weeks. thats not a lot of money. but it surely beats BROKE on the corner robbin, slangin, dodging cops and robbers.

and this is a 20 year old. we know most 20 year olds are still at moms crib. so lets factor that in. he could slide moms $500 for rent. and kick in a $200 for food per month, throw another $200 on utilities. and bam thats one check. he still has another $900 to himself. he already had a beat up Whip that was paid for. it aint hot but it gets from point A to point B. so no need for a car note. just insurance.

he can stack chips. while he's moving up in that job. cause on the median level of a Electrician I. he could be around $45k+ in no time. in addition he could always do little side jobs for his mother's friends and local neighbors. Thats extra cash off the books if it isnt that much. if it is a lot of cheese. then file that on your taxes as a side gig. and write off your travel expenses/equipment when you can. nothing shady about that at all.

i'm saying by the time this kid is 25. he could easily be making 50k+. now raise your hand if you were bringing in 50k+ when you were 25 with ZERO DEBT from school?

Exactly.

sorry folks its time for a change. now this is not guaranteed. nothing is. no i'm not saying 4 yr degree aint the move. i'm saying its costing to much without the results for MOST. to just assume 4 yr is the best thing going for all. it isnt. and who says you cant go back later? i have 40k+ on the table i've been making in my early 20's. i could wake up one morning and say i want to go to school. i already have a Associates degree. all i need is my GE's and a few more classes. i might be able to flip my AS credits and finish up in less then 2 years. no telling. not only will i be able to pay for a 4 year OUT right. i will not have any debt when i'm done. this will afford me the ability to actually wait out the job market until i find something in my field of study vs just getting on the first thing thats paying half way decent. i also have an ability to be an electrician. therefore i always have that as another fall back if this new angle doesnt pay out soon.

 

[theworldismine13]

la tech is a community college Los Angeles Trade

Los Angeles Trade–Technical College (L.A. Trade-Tech) is a public community college

its just as cheap to take electrician classes as it is to take history classes, which is why its silly to use debt as an excuse to not go to college, the people that should be worried about debt are people that go to regular trade schools and go to private universities and dont apply for scholarships or grants

your fantasy scenario works just as well with a history major as an electrician, it easy to graduate with little debt if you do things right

but again who are you to tell somebody that being an electrician is better than being a historian?

why cant a young black male simply go to a cheap community college and take whatever interests them? why cant a young black male focus on intellectual development and not just money?

and if you think its about money why dont you say that young black males should focus on STEM and engineering which is where the real money is

 

[rapbeats]

la tech is a community college Los Angeles Trade



its just as cheap to take electrician classes as it is to take history classes, which is why its silly to use debt as an excuse to not go to college, the people that should be worried about debt are people that go to regular trade schools and go to private universities and dont apply for scholarships or grants

your fantasy scenario works just as well with a history major as an electrician, it easy to graduate with little debt if you do things right

but again who are you to tell somebody that being an electrician is better than being a historian?

why cant a young black male simply go to a cheap community college and take whatever interests them? why cant a young black male focus on intellectual development and not just money?

and if you think its about money why dont you say that young black males should focus on STEM and engineering which is where the real money is

a young black male can do whatever he chooses to do. but i would caution him to not let the status quo lead him. make a legit choice based on your desires, abilities, and economics. not one or the other. all 3.

there are a lot of youngins running around thinking 4 yr degree is the end all to be all. when it isnt. then they find out it isnt then they hate life. there is no end all to be all. there was a time where a 4 yr degree meant you were darn near guaranteed a nice situation. that time has passed. and since it has past. you have to weigh the economics. IS IT WORTH IT going into debt like that. we're not comparing dumb high school corner store hanger outter to guy that goes to college. we're comparing. smart kid who decides to hit that electrician school vs running to a 4 yr establishment.

and for the record you cant say "its just as cheap" to go to 2 years of JC then 2 more years of Uni. when i just gave you an example of 48 units. done in 2 years time TOPS. if you talk accelerated programs. it can be done in a year or less. its not the same costs at all. we're talking $4grand max vs 10grand per year to 20grand going to 4 year. or doing 2 year jc and then 2 year big boy school. fam, thats at minimum a 12k difference, on the high end a $32,000 difference.

CSUMentor - Ask an Expert - Frequently Asked Questions

its expensive brehs. but hey if you are SERIOUS about being that engineer, doctor, lawyer, scientists. by all means make it happen. but if you're in the "unsure" crowd. if you're thinking about getting a random business degree, or a degree in education(because you're thinking about becoming a teacher). i would advise you to take a look at the trade school route. not all trade schools are created equal. dont go some where, that will cost you more then college or close to it. that wouldnt make sense. go some where thats cheap enough to get you into a good enough paying job where you could then pay for school out of your pocket after 2 years of working there, so you can go to that 4 year debt free and take the classes you desire without worry. unlike most kids in college early on. you will have a job. a REAL job. making grown up Money. not that 20 hours a week making less then $10 crap.

 

[Serious]

there are a lot of youngins running around thinking 4 yr degree is the end all to be all. when it isnt. then they find out it isnt then they hate life. there is no end all to be all.

sounds like 90% of this forum.....

 

[theworldismine13]

a young black male can do whatever he chooses to do. but i would caution him to not let the status quo lead him. make a legit choice based on your desires, abilities, and economics. not one or the other. all 3.

there are a lot of youngins running around thinking 4 yr degree is the end all to be all. when it isnt. then they find out it isnt then they hate life. there is no end all to be all. there was a time where a 4 yr degree meant you were darn near guaranteed a nice situation. that time has passed. and since it has past. you have to weigh the economics. IS IT WORTH IT going into debt like that. we're not comparing dumb high school corner store hanger outter to guy that goes to college. we're comparing. smart kid who decides to hit that electrician school vs running to a 4 yr establishment.

and for the record you cant say "its just as cheap" to go to 2 years of JC then 2 more years of Uni. when i just gave you an example of 48 units. done in 2 years time TOPS. if you talk accelerated programs. it can be done in a year or less. its not the same costs at all. we're talking $4grand max vs 10grand per year to 20grand going to 4 year. or doing 2 year jc and then 2 year big boy school. fam, thats at minimum a 12k difference, on the high end a $32,000 difference.

CSUMentor - Ask an Expert - Frequently Asked Questions

its expensive brehs. but hey if you are SERIOUS about being that engineer, doctor, lawyer, scientists. by all means make it happen. but if you're in the "unsure" crowd. if you're thinking about getting a random business degree, or a degree in education(because you're thinking about becoming a teacher). i would advise you to take a look at the trade school route. not all trade schools are created equal. dont go some where, that will cost you more then college or close to it. that wouldnt make sense. go some where thats cheap enough to get you into a good enough paying job where you could then pay for school out of your pocket after 2 years of working there, so you can go to that 4 year debt free and take the classes you desire without worry. unlike most kids in college early on. you will have a job. a REAL job. making grown up Money. not that 20 hours a week making less then $10 crap.

i think you are making a dream scenario and are leaving out things like the fact that to be an electrician you have to be an apprentice ie getting paid sh*t for years befor getting a license

and overall 90% of trade schools are private and cost between 10K and 20K, in other words you can go to a public university for the same amount of money as going to a 2 year trade school

but my point is that college graduates always make more money, there is really no way around that, the stats about that are crystal clear

if people have other interests or want to get a job quick or want some food clothing and shelter they should go ahead and try other things, but in our society money and power will always reside with the most educated, and that is what my advice for, money and power, my advice is not really on how to get a job

 

[rapbeats]

i think you are making a dream scenario and are leaving out things like the fact that to be an electrician you have to be an apprentice ie getting paid sh*t for years befor getting a license

and overall 90% of trade schools are private and cost between 10K and 20K, in other words you can go to a public university for the same amount of money as going to a 2 year trade school

but my point is that college graduates always make more money, there is really no way around that, the stats about that are crystal clear

if people have other interests or want to get a job quick or want some food clothing and shelter they should go ahead and try other things, but in our society money and power will always reside with the most educated, and that is what my advice for, money and power, my advice is not really on how to get a job

you're wrong. and the reason i know you're wrong. is because my pops was an electrician. ahhhh haaaaa. you thought i just made up and randomly picked something. IBEW sir. i've been in that union hall with the man. why did i not go that route like he suggested? for one, thats what happens blackmen when you're not IN THE HOUSE with your children. they only half listen to you. pops and moms was not together but pops did show his face often. this is why i know exactly what i'm talking about. you wont make a horrible wage being an apprentice. and to be an apprentice you actually dont need to get a certification. you skip the cert, go the apprentice route when you're a kid. make a lower wage then move up slowly. OR go the trade school route. skip that step to some degree. notice the job i posted was the first phase electrician I. not II, not III. not SR. but I.

i gave you a worse case scenario if you went the trade school route. which still says "SCHOOL" at the end of it. so i need to know why are you fighting this? learning is learning especially if it works. notice i didnt say NEVER GOTO COLLEGE. i also stated when you have money in hand. you then have the REAL options that your white counterparts that grew up with families with money have when they go off to college. you have choices. "lets see, what do i wanna major in., i can take my sweet time, dont have to worry about loans and paying those back. i can choose any road i want cause i now have a fall back called electrician work." use your head folks. wish i would've listened to pops. but hey, i did get some life lessons in those dorms when i was 18 that i would've never received being at the house with moms. and thats worth a lot as well. it is what it is.

 

[theworldismine13]

you're wrong. and the reason i know you're wrong. is because my pops was an electrician. ahhhh haaaaa. you thought i just made up and randomly picked something. IBEW sir. i've been in that union hall with the man. why did i not go that route like he suggested? for one, thats what happens blackmen when you're not IN THE HOUSE with your children. they only half listen to you. pops and moms was not together but pops did show his face often. this is why i know exactly what i'm talking about. you wont make a horrible wage being an apprentice. and to be an apprentice you actually dont need to get a certification. you skip the cert, go the apprentice route when you're a kid. make a lower wage then move up slowly. OR go the trade school route. skip that step to some degree. notice the job i posted was the first phase electrician I. not II, not III. not SR. but I.

i gave you a worse case scenario if you went the trade school route. which still says "SCHOOL" at the end of it. so i need to know why are you fighting this? learning is learning especially if it works. notice i didnt say NEVER GOTO COLLEGE. i also stated when you have money in hand. you then have the REAL options that your white counterparts that grew up with families with money have when they go off to college. you have choices. "lets see, what do i wanna major in., i can take my sweet time, dont have to worry about loans and paying those back. i can choose any road i want cause i now have a fall back called electrician work." use your head folks. wish i would've listened to pops. but hey, i did get some life lessons in those dorms when i was 18 that i would've never received being at the house with moms. and thats worth a lot as well. it is what it is.

i dont see what im wrong about, i never said dont be an electrician, and technically trade school is college, what i said is that college graduates make more money than non college graduates and that in this society money and power is held by those that are educated

im giving advice about money and power its not about getting a job, if somebody just wants a job there is nothing wrong with being an electrician and also UPS is hiring

young black males should focus on power and money (ie education), not on getting a job, there is a slight difference