Yahoo Sports: “A closer look at MJ’s 1988 DPOY raises questions about its validity”

[Boonapalist]

Michael was better at getting people to do whatever he wanted,” Pippen wrote. “I saw it over and over, from the first training camp in 1987 to the last victory rally in 1998. Here’s how it worked: Say I deflected the ball and tapped it over to him. I should get credit with the steal, right? Nope.

> More often than not, the steal went into his column on the stat sheet, and I could do nothing about it.

“One night, a scorekeeper came into the locker room after the game to hand the stat sheets to Phil Jackson and the coaching staff. The sheet breaks down the points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocked shots, turnovers, and so on for everyone who played the game. I couldn’t believe the look the guy gave Michael: ‘See MJ, we take care of you.’ No wonder in the nine full seasons we played together, he averaged more steals than me in every year except two.”

Damn maybe Scottie wasn’t hating after all

 

[Trojan 24]

'LeFags' is corny white boy shyt, which makes sense from you but, you're right because I was literally looking for a specific Bulls/Knicks game where they were doing a full court trap on the Starks and fukking them up completely, and stumbled across this sick ass move

Don't talk to your B1G Brethren like that

 

[GhostoftheMan]

this is the shyt why no one takes basketball seriously and the media only talks about storylines. nikkas main talking point is goat talks after a championship game not even a week ago

 

[JasoRockStar]

people getting juiced stats at home ain't a shocker, but this nikka on the Bulls was getting ridiculous with it.

this.


and yeah, Mike vs Bron gon get REAL stupid when Bron finally retires. Wish that nikka would go now seeing what him and Jeanie doin to the LWO

That JJ Redikk hire was wild. Hope it all works out for the best for y'all though.

1988 DPOY:
259 STL, 131 BLK
VS
1987:
236 STL, 125 BLK

1987: HOME/AWAY
132/104 STL
65/60 BLK

REMOVE THE 88 SEASON AND
87 IS STILL THE MOST "STOCKS"
BY A GUARD IN NBA HISTORY.



​

You really think this just started in 88? Really?


The author of the piece acknowledged that there was a disparity in 87 too, just not to the degree of the 87-88 season.

Examining Jordan’s career, the six-time champion showed a disparity in home vs. road stats in his third season in 1986-87, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the 1987-88 season surge shown in home stats.

He was a great defender, nobody is disputing that. But they were cooking the books for his defensive stats in 88. That much is clear.

Dating back to 1982-83 when the award was established, Jordan’s home-vs.-away disparity in combined blocks and steals represents the largest of any Defensive Player of the Year award winner in NBA history.

No other instance in the award’s history has a player shown a disparity that touched 160 percent — except for Jordan’s 1987-88 season, which clocked in at 182 percent.

Turnovers fall into two categories: live-ball turnovers and dead-ball turnovers. By rule, dead-ball turnovers (i.e. traveling, out of bounds, 24-second violation, etc.) cannot be steals. For example, if, say, Atlanta’s Kevin Willis traveled on a play, a steal couldn’t be credited to a Bulls defender.

Only live-ball turnovers — like an intercepted pass or a recovered loose ball — can be assigned to a defensive player for a steal. The more live-ball turnovers in a game, the more steals in a game.

The Bulls having 10 steals on 10 Hawks turnovers meant that none of the Hawks turnovers could have been dead-ball turnovers. No travels. No offensive fouls. No ball tossed out of bounds. No 24-second violations. For an entire game.

The incongruent turnover/steal columns presented a glaring red flag. In the other five games we watched, the live-ball turnovers and steals did not add up, either. In the Detroit game, eight Chicago steals on six Detroit live-ball turnovers. In the Denver game, 13 Chicago steals on just seven Denver live-ball turnovers. Again and again, the official steal counts were routinely outpacing the possible number of steal opportunities. Something was amiss.


All in all, by our count, the box score showed 59 steals on 41 live-ball turnovers, resulting in a whopping 18 excess steals.

Who benefited from all those extra steals? We brought our attention to Jordan’s accounting. In the six games, the box scores indicated that Jordan’s total steal count was 28. After comparing our notes from the film study, we each counted 12 steals. An astounding difference of 16 excess steals. Almost every excess steal was being allocated to Jordan.

 

[JasoRockStar]

Michael was better at getting people to do whatever he wanted,” Pippen wrote. “I saw it over and over, from the first training camp in 1987 to the last victory rally in 1998. Here’s how it worked: Say I deflected the ball and tapped it over to him. I should get credit with the steal, right? Nope.

> More often than not, the steal went into his column on the stat sheet, and I could do nothing about it.

“One night, a scorekeeper came into the locker room after the game to hand the stat sheets to Phil Jackson and the coaching staff. The sheet breaks down the points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocked shots, turnovers, and so on for everyone who played the game. I couldn’t believe the look the guy gave Michael: ‘See MJ, we take care of you.’ No wonder in the nine full seasons we played together, he averaged more steals than me in every year except two.”

Damn maybe Scottie wasn’t hating after all

I posted about this exact same thing in this thread.

 

[NYC Rebel]

I used to say the same about Larry Bird's assist numbers. Half of them shyts came from dumping the ball into "the black hole" Kevin McHale who would shimmy his way into low post points.

Look at this shyt.



do you know how many of these plays were called Bird assists?

the 1:38 mark was an assist by Bird.

 

[CHICAGO]

That JJ Redikk hire was wild. Hope it all works out for the best for y'all though.


You really think this just started in 88? Really?


The author of the piece acknowledged that there was a disparity in 87 too, just not to the degree of the 87-88 season.



He was a great defender, nobody is disputing that. But they were cooking the books for his defensive stats in 88. That much is clear.

132/104
65/60

AINT NO DAMN DISPARITY.

EVERYONE PLAYS BETTER AT HOME.

NEXT YOURE GONNA TELL ME
TEAMS WHO HAVE MUCH BETTER
HOME RECORDS THAN ROAD RECORDS
SHOULDN'T HAVE BETTER STATS AT HOME.


BULLS WERE 19 GMS UNDER 500
ON THE ROAD IN 87



​

 

[CHICAGO]

I used to say the same about Larry Bird's assist numbers. Half of them shyts came from dumping the ball into "the black hole" Kevin McHale who would shimmy his way into low post points.

Look at this shyt.



do you know how many of these plays were called Bird assists?

THIS STILL HAPPENS
IN EVERY GAME TODAY.

YOU CAN PASS A GUY THE BALL,
HE HEAD FAKES A GUY,
TAKE 2 DRIBBLES INSIDE THE ARC
AND MAKES A PULL UP J...

YOU GONNA RECEIVE AN ASSIST EVERY TIME.






​

 

[NYC Rebel]

THIS STILL HAPPENS
IN EVERY GAME TODAY.

YOU CAN PASS A GUY THE BALL,
HE HEAD FAKES A GUY,
TAKE 2 DRIBBLES INSIDE THE ARC
AND MAKES A PULL UP J...

YOU GONNA RECEIVE AN ASSIST EVERY TIME.






​

But it was more ridiculous back then with the amount of post players in the game.

That shyt used to make me laugh.

 

[HabitualChiller]

He's better than me, because my question would be, "who did MJ guard in order to get that award"?

The 1-3 wasn't anywhere close to as valid as it has been this decade, so what the fúck?

Wasn't he routinely getting cooked by IT and Dumars as well? MJ is the GOAT, but to act like he's far and away the best at everything is asinine. Buddy didn't even routinely guard the other teams primary or secondary scorer post '91, yet he racked up all those defensive 1st team awards in that era.

That's like giving Steph a 1st team all defense selection for locking up Marcus Smarts on a nightly basis, fúck the numbers.

 

[CHICAGO]

He's better than me, because my question would be, "who did MJ guard in order to get that award"?

The 1-3 wasn't anywhere close to as valid as it has been this decade, so what the fúck?

Wasn't he routinely getting cooked by IT and Dumars as well? MJ is the GOAT, but to act like he's far and away the best at everything is asinine. Buddy didn't even routinely guard the other teams primary or secondary scorer post '91, yet he racked up all those defensive 1st team awards in that era.

That's like giving Steph a 1st team all defense selection for locking up Marcus Smarts on a nightly basis, fúck the numbers.

LMAO

nikkaS STAY MENTIONING THOSE PISTONS SERIES
LIKE MJ WASNT BALLING THE fukk OUT
IN EVERY ONE
WHILE ISIAH WAS SHOOTING 39%

​

​

 

[Long Live The Kane]

Retroactively trying to discredit a 40 year old award based on wildly incomplete game footage and a conspiracy theory and fallacious argument that a home stat keeper inflated stock numbers (possibly paid by MJ himself to do so) and singlehandedly won MJ the DPOY….all for no other reason than because BRON never won DPOY, explicitly prefacing the article in that framing at that…is some of the most diabolical shameless dikkriding imaginable in a professional setting…. Bron groupies need their press credentials revoked…. This is ridiculous

 

[JasoRockStar]

132/104
65/60

AINT NO DAMN DISPARITY.

EVERYONE PLAYS BETTER AT HOME.

NEXT YOURE GONNA TELL ME
TEAMS WHO HAVE MUCH BETTER
HOME RECORDS THAN ROAD RECORDS
SHOULDN'T HAVE BETTER STATS AT HOME.


BULLS WERE 19 GMS UNDER 500
ON THE ROAD IN 87



​

Teams tending to play better at home = True

Jordan having his stocks be 82% higher at home compared to one the road = Bullshyt

 

[CHICAGO]

Teams tending to play better at home = True

Jordan having his stocks be 82% higher at home compared to one the road = Bullshyt

WHATS THE PERCENTAGE IN 87?
WHICH WOULD STILL BE THE GUARD RECORD...






​

 

[JasoRockStar]

SO YOU AND THAT OTHER CAC
ARE TRYING TO SAY JORDAN
DIDNT REALLY GET THOSE STEALS AT HOME
AND THE SCORE KEEPER MADE THEM UP
AS IF STEALS COULD BE MANIPULATED
LIKE ASSISTS?

TEAMS REALLY WERENT TURNING
THE BALL OVER,
THE SCORE KEEPER WAS JUST
GRANTING MJ WITH STEALS
THAT DIDNT EXIST AT HOME.

WHAT IN THE fukk
ARE WE DOING?



​

You really think man got over 70 MORE STEALS at home than playing on the road?


Even with that graph that shows how much of a difference there was between him and the other top steals leaders in the league?


That don't sound suspect to you?