Why Should Liberals Like Libertarian Ideas?

[DEAD7]

Why do you hate God?

 

[brick james]

Sure, but individuals(without a state) couldn't have orchestrated the holocaust.

Extreme example, but we need to be clear we are talking apples and oranges when comparing individuals and the state.

At what point do you call a group of individuals agreeing to pool their resources for a greater good, the state? And individuals did orchestrate the holocaust. Hitler, a charismatic individual convinced other individuals to convince other individuals and so on and so forth, to carry out his will.

I understand your reasoning, but would you agree its harder for a rogue organiation to get nuclear weapons in the heavily regulated USA then it would be in a libertarian state?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Even if you slash the death toll of communism in half, its still far and away the leader... not sure where you are going. You're suggesting that looking at the "full picture" will make the assertion false which it doesn't.
I must also ask what are you comparing the death toll under large govt. to?

As for your second point, the idea is that small concentrations of power are less dangerous than large ones. Incompetency and Tyranny are implicit in govt.

What goes on in Qatar is in the name of profit and Islam, the latter being the more problematic of the two IMO.

So then say communism is the leading killer, not big govt. All big govt != communism.

Incompetence and tyranny are implicit in the private sector as well, only difference is the private sector hides it better. So if avoiding incompetence/tyranny is the goal private vs public or big govt vs small govt isnt really relevant. A lot of these corporations are more powerful than the govts they operate under, but you want to loosen their reins even more lol.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

At what point do you call a group of individuals agreeing to pool their resources for a greater good, the state? And individuals did orchestrate the holocaust. Hitler, a charismatic individual convinced other individuals to convince other individuals and so on and so forth, to carry out his will.

I understand your reasoning, but would you agree its harder for a rogue organiation to get nuclear weapons in the heavily regulated USA then it would be in a libertarian state?

As long as the individuals are of the private sector, it shouldn't be a problem. Private sector never makes bad decisions or puts people in danger, why would you even say such a thing.

 

[DEAD7]

At what point do you call a group of individuals agreeing to pool their resources for a greater good, the state? And individuals did orchestrate the holocaust. Hitler, a charismatic individual convinced other individuals to convince other individuals and so on and so forth, to carry out his will.

I understand your reasoning, but would you agree its harder for a rogue organiation to get nuclear weapons in the heavily regulated USA then it would be in a libertarian state?

When they initiate force.

Hitler became leader of the state...
But again, I'm hearing this its the shooters fault, not the gun. Which is fine, cause it means you are against gun restrictions/bans.

 

[DEAD7]

So then say communism is the leading killer, not big govt. All big govt != communism.

Incompetence and tyranny are implicit in the private sector as well, only difference is the private sector hides it better. So if avoiding incompetence/tyranny is the goal private vs public or big govt vs small govt isnt really relevant. A lot of these corporations are more powerful than the govts they operate under, but you want to loosen their reins even more lol.

Communism is necessarily big govt.
But big govt. isnt necessarily communism.
I believe all societies naturally slide towards socialism, and I believe Marx was correct and communism is the end game for socialism.

I wasnt making a comparison with the private sector... but i'm curious, what company is more powerful than the U.S. govt.?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I believe all societies naturally slide towards socialism, and I believe Marx was correct and communism is the end game for socialism.

Based on what??? In the US for example, govt is shrinking (based on budget and spending as % of GDP) and the income/wealth gap is growing. And lol @ choosing such a convenient point to agree with Marx on. Again, based on what???

I wasnt making a comparison with the private sector... but i'm curious, what company is more powerful than the U.S. govt.?

Companies that control our energy, food, private info flow etc. No one company is more powerful but collectively as industries they are.

 

[DEAD7]

Can't find the exact link capturing all of them but a lot of folks who identify as libertarians are largely in part just crusty paranoid contrarian Republicans. Heres a report tho....

http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/2013.AVS_WEB.pdf

According to this, 59% of Libertarians oppose same sex marriage, 41% are anti abortion, and 29% oppose marijuana decriminalization. So much for libertarians "leaning left". Survey sampled ~2300 people for whatever that's worth.

I belong to several libertarian groups and think tanks, and no one is against marijuana decriminalization, or people being able to marry who they want. Abortion is sketchy though.
*Those polled could just be anarchist and opposed to any halfway legislation.
I know a few, myself included who oppose same sex marriage legislation, and the "gay rights" movement in general.

For jokes: I joined a black libertarians group on Facebook, and there were only 5 members .

 

[DEAD7]

Based on what??? In the US for example, govt is shrinking (based on budget and spending as % of GDP) and the income/wealth gap is growing. And lol @ choosing such a convenient point to agree with Marx on. Again, based on what???

Our answers to these issues show the direction we are headed, single payer, redistribution, free college education(proposed) etc.

Its not as out there as you think.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Drug legalization, gay marriage, equal rights, take your pick. What do you think democrats are left of libertarians on?

This isn't about "party"

I'm in support of ALL of those.

I'm not in favor of libertarianism.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Libertarians are generally two kinds of people: high school/college kids that want Ron Paul to be president because he promised to "legalize", and are unaware that under a libertarian president their student grants and their free education might altogether vanish; and an older, more cynical class of voters who thinks that ultimate self-reliance and minimal economic regulation is sustainable in a country this size.

Don't get me wrong, I've read plenty of literature on the ideology and love many of its principles dearly; particularly the strong non-interventionist foreign policy, vast social freedoms, and a devotion to the Bill of Rights (namely the 2nd Amendment). Big government sucks and is necessarily oppressive, but the complete opposite can't be the only viable solution.

Great post. I have nothing else to add

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

No ideology should rule absolute.

You just said AT LEAST 3 times that some nebulous term like "the state" is responsible for "more death"

Or something.

AS IF governments are going to willingly support THEIR OWN coup de tats

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Government will always exist. Big government will always come into existence. Its more a matter of . Can demonic filth be kept out of government.

This is why the government of the Savior will last forever.

Because Saudi Arabia is heaven on earth, huh?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

They want to end the war on drugs which I'm down for.

Its gonna happen in our lifetimes. Obama has made major headway on this.

I dont support COMPLETE legalization of ALL drugs.

Libertarians think you should be free to just shoot heroin on the bus.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

This is the absolute truth, and you can see it right here on this board. A lot of these cats out here wearing Libertarian flags are pretty much just guys who would be open Republicans if there wasn't such a horrible stigma around voting for those lames (especially among minorities). They pretend to wear that Gary Johnson flag because they like the word freedom and shyt. But ask them about any liberal social issue and they're troglodytes, no different than any other elephant out there. I wouldn't say @DEAD7 is though, he walks the walk.


Don't we all. Libertarians are pretty all the way on the issue though. A lot of them are cool with no restrictions on any pharmaceuticals or restricted narcotics, which i'm not sure is a good idea personally.

One thing Libertarians are really spot on about is rolling back domestic spying and foreign policy fukkery as well.

When these dudes say shyt like "Why can't I smoke crack if I want to?!?!"

The world is bigger than you.

Its like what your parents tell you when your get your drivers license. These rules aren't just for you, they're for everyone else who ISNT you. You have to drive not just for yourself, but everyone else on the road.