Why Should Liberals Like Libertarian Ideas?

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Why should a govt do that? People should protect their own property. If the govt does that they will only use it as an opportunity to grow their power and encroach on other rights.

Actually, thats not what he means.

When the Soviet Union failed, they didn't put in enough legal statues to actually allow for individuals to OWN shyt cause they were so communist. Its a more nuanced argument.

He's just flawed because in @DEAD7's world, somehow the government is going to do what he inherently doesn't want them to do.

But carry on

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I'm not questioning the merits of those polices(though I do disagree with them), just pointing out the slide towards socialism/central planning. Preventing this slide requires constant vigilance. A vigilance I think is more prevalent among libertarians.

... and I am die hard, but it stems more from a rejection of surrogate decision making and economic barriers than a 'this is superior to this' idea.
That said, I do believe a freer market to be superior to all other implemented models, that our govt. overreach is atrocious, and that our intervention policy will be the downfall of us.

how do we NOT have a free market????????????????????

Thats what I dont get from you guys.

You acknowledge that its not perfect, but do yuo mean to tell me that we're not doing BETTER than anyone else in your eyes????

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

You're not questioning them, but you don't agree with them?
So in other words, to you, the idea of less government is superior to the idea of more govt. That's not a bad thing; your continual contradictions are

Any system, including a free market, works perfect in theory; you have a nagging habit of championing the theoretical benefits of ideologies you are "die hard" for (again even though you said absolute ideology is not a good thing) and pointing to the practical/real world failures of ideologies you don't like. The only thing consistent about you is your intellectual dishonesty and unwillingness to commit to anything.

 

[DEAD7]

You're not questioning them, but you don't agree with them?
So in other words, to you, the idea of less government is superior to the idea of more govt. That's not a bad thing; your continual contradictions are

Any system, including a free market, works perfect in theory; you have a nagging habit of championing the theoretical benefits of ideologies you are "die hard" for (again even though you said absolute ideology is not a good thing) and pointing to the practical/real world failures of ideologies you don't like. The only thing consistent about you is your intellectual dishonesty and unwillingness to commit to anything.

1 - I meant in this thread, and in the post you were responding to
2 -
3 - freer market* and I said I believe, not it is.
If you want actual comparisons between market based economies, and the communism I refer to, you need only ask.

More over, the "free market" has never existed, so it can only be discussed theoretically... If it is to be discussed at all.

 

[DEAD7]

how do we NOT have a free market????????????????????

Thats what I dont get from you guys.

You acknowledge that its not perfect, but do yuo mean to tell me that we're not doing BETTER than anyone else in your eyes????

We are... I suppose.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

1 - I meant in this thread, and in the post you were responding to
2 -
3 - freer market* and I said I believe, not it is.
If you want actual comparisons between market based economies, and the communism I refer to, you need only ask.

More over, the "free market" has never existed, so it can only be discussed theoretically... If it is to be discussed at all.

Free market does exist in practice though. The big corporations who run through 3rd world countries whose govts have no regulatory power is an example of a true free market. No regulations, no accountability, no limits. Qatar is far from the only place abusing workers.... practices like holding passports and charging workers "finders fees" for work (paid for by high interest loans of course) are a regular occurrence all throughout SE Asia. Some companies are good, just like some govts are good. But some companies are bad, just like some govts are bad. So the idea that swinging the power pendulum more towards the private sector will guarantee positive results is false, and there is plenty of real world proof showing that. But again, such realities are not a part of the libertarian consciousness.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Free market does exist in practice though. The big corporations who run through 3rd world countries whose govts have no regulatory power is an example of a true free market. No regulations, no accountability, no limits. Qatar is far from the only place abusing workers.... practices like holding passports and charging workers "finders fees" for work (paid for by high interest loans of course) are a regular occurrence all throughout SE Asia. Some companies are good, just like some govts are good. But some companies are bad, just like some govts are bad. So the idea that swinging the power pendulum more towards the private sector will guarantee positive results is false, and there is plenty of real world proof showing that. But again, such realities are not a part of the libertarian consciousness.

Free market = Nigerian Delta

 

[DEAD7]

Free market does exist in practice though. The big corporations who run through 3rd world countries whose govts have no regulatory power is an example of a true free market. No regulations, no accountability, no limits. Qatar is far from the only place abusing workers.... practices like holding passports and charging workers "finders fees" for work (paid for by high interest loans of course) are a regular occurrence all throughout SE Asia. Some companies are good, just like some govts are good. But some companies are bad, just like some govts are bad. So the idea that swinging the power pendulum more towards the private sector will guarantee positive results is false, and there is plenty of real world proof showing that. But again, such realities are not a part of the libertarian consciousness.

Oh they are, those cost just don't outweigh the benefits. Which is what it always boils down to...

Comparing private power to state power is apples and oranges.
Wal-Mart cant make you do anything... you can chose to never step foot in a Wal-Mart and despite all their "power" there is nothing Wal-Mart can do about it. Govt. however can say you must buy their product, and throw you in jail if you refuse, they can require you register with them for [insert service] or face penalty.
There is no opt out of govt.

How is this difference not apparent to all?


I'd also argue that the % of companies engaging in these practices is extremely small. I'd be shocked if it was more than 5% of all business's engaging in this sort of corruption.

 

[DEAD7]

Free market = Nigerian Delta

The moment force is used its anti-capitalist criminal behavior... or govt.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Oh they are, those cost just don't outweigh the benefits. Which is what it always boils down to...

Comparing private power to state power is apples and oranges.
Wal-Mart cant make you do anything... you can chose to never step foot in a Wal-Mart and despite all their "power" there is nothing Wal-Mart can do about it. Govt. however can say you must buy their product, and throw you in jail if you refuse, they can require you register with them for [insert service] or face penalty.
There is no opt out of govt.

How is this difference not apparent to all?

There's no opting out of companies like Google or Exxon either. And we already talked about cable companies, whose monopolies you championed as triumphs of private industry. Lets be reality. Govt does something, you hate it. Private industry does the same exact thing to the same ill effect, you put a positive spin on it and celebrate it. Zero integrity.

And the libertarian pipe dream would only expand that circle of unavoidability. If a private company owns the road to your house or your water supply, how are you going to opt out of that? They are no more accountable than the govt, and they have the added explicit conflict of interest of operating for profits over the general good of the public. But these are the exact kind of stupid ideas I've heard from libertarians. You cite Walmart as something people want to avoid but champion an ideology that would make them unavoidable

I'd also argue that the % of companies engaging in these practices is extremely small. I'd be shocked if it was more than 5% of all business's engaging in this sort of corruption.

By # sure, but def not by size or influence.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

I belong to several libertarian groups and think tanks.

I knew it. You're a fukking Foundation for Economic Education plant!

@BarNone ban this viral marketeer



@Mephistopheles @88m3 @Domingo Halliburton @The Real @No_bammer_weed @Type Username Here​

 

[DEAD7]

There's no opting out of companies like Google or Exxon either. And we already talked about cable companies, whose monopolies you championed as triumphs of private industry. Lets be reality. Govt does something, you hate it. Private industry does the same exact thing to the same ill effect, you put a positive spin on it and celebrate it. Zero integrity.

And the libertarian pipe dream would only expand that circle of unavoidability. If a private company owns the road to your house or your water supply, how are you going to opt out of that? They are no more accountable than the govt, and they have the added explicit conflict of interest of operating for profits over the general good of the public. But these are the exact kind of stupid ideas I've heard from libertarians. You cite Walmart as something .

As long as competition is legal, how can a company maintain a monopoly?

The only way they can make it unattractive for competitors to enter a market is by maintaining the quality high and the costs low. Which means that even a company with a large market share acts as if it was on a highly competitive market.

If a company practices excessively high prices, then that will be a MAGNET for competitors!

The destruction of competition by intervention is what you guys are seeing, not a "free market" mechanism.

 

[DEAD7]

I knew it. You're a fukking Foundation for Economic Education plant!

@BarNone ban this viral marketeer



@Mephistopheles @88m3 @Domingo Halliburton​

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

As long as competition is legal, how can a company maintain a monopoly?

The only way they can make it unattractive for competitors to enter a market is by maintaining the quality high and the costs low. Which means that even a company with a large market share acts as if it was on a highly competitive market.

If a company practices excessively high prices, then that will be a MAGNET for competitors!

The destruction of competition by intervention is what you guys are seeing, not a "free market" mechanism.

No way. Cable companies for example just buy competitors. The regulation you hate is usually what keeps stuff like that from happening, but these companies buy their ways around such legal precedents. And the circumstances for creating a rival cable infrastructure network is not feasible for a newcomer. Cable prices now are out of control and because of legacy costs and regional monopolies there is no competition.

 

[DEAD7]

No way. Cable companies for example just buy competitors. The regulation you hate is usually what keeps stuff like that from happening, but these companies buy their ways around such legal precedents. And the circumstances for creating a rival cable infrastructure network is not feasible for a newcomer. Cable prices now are out of control and because of legacy costs and regional monopolies there is no competition.

It isnt feasible because of cost?