Why is religion and the bible always holding our society back?

[NoMayo15]

This supposed logic you're talking about was developed significantly by religious people. But besides all that, religion and science have worked hand in hand to subject peoples. You cannot let your obsession with religious people make you ignorant to history. Science is just like religion in that whoever is in control of it can still draw whatever conclusions they want. How long ago was it that science and religion worked hand in hand to enslave people and to promote genocides..... I really think you need to take a break from these religious threads homie, this is starting to look like an obsession.

What's a recent example of this? @Brown_Pride?

 

[the cac mamba]

But besides all that, religion and science have worked hand in hand to subject peoples. .

you cant seriously be comparing the influence of science to the influence that has caused hundreds of millions of people to believe and fear that theyre under constant surveillance from a big brother being who will send them to 'hell' if they disobey him

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

This supposed logic you're talking about was developed significantly by religious people. But besides all that, religion and science have worked hand in hand to subject peoples. You cannot let your obsession with religious people make you ignorant to history. Science is just like religion in that whoever is in control of it can still draw whatever conclusions they want. How long ago was it that science and religion worked hand in hand to enslave people and to promote genocides..... I really think you need to take a break from these religious threads homie, this is starting to look like an obsession.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

Obviously science worked hand in hand with religion

Scientific racism is pseudo-science. We have a much better understanding of science and the scientific process now and enough intelligent people to expose it.

I'm obsessed? I can't even open up facebook without seeing some dumb fukking religious person saying that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry. sorry for being disgusted enough by it to make a thread

 

[No1]

What's a recent example of this? @Brown_Pride?

To be completely honest with you, I'm actually flabbergasted that you're asking me this question. Take a big guess.

And please, do not place within the sphere of people that are anti-science or whatever. I just felt the need to preempt given the history of HL whenever someone points out a flaw in people's reasoning....and then somehow you're equated with defending an entire system of belief.

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

To be completely honest with you, I'm actually flabbergasted that you're asking me this question. Take a big guess.

And please, do not place within the sphere of people that are anti-science or whatever. I just felt the need to preempt given the history of HL whenever someone points out a flaw in people's reasoning....and then somehow you're equated with defending an entire system of belief.

When has science promoted an entire genocide



a regime may have used pseudo science propaganda as small cursory evidence but please don't act like science played some HUGE role in a genocide or subjugation of people. On the other hand, I can name you SEVERAL instances were genocide and subjugation of people were DIRECTLY associated with religion.

 

[Blackking]

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

Obviously science worked hand in hand with religion

Scientific racism is pseudo-science. We have a much better understanding of science and the scientific process now and enough intelligent people to expose it.

I'm obsessed? I can't even open up facebook without seeing some dumb fukking religious person saying that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry. sorry for being disgusted enough by it to make a thread

You are obsessed. However, I think you're just misguided and confused. You think that religion has brought more harm than good. Individually it helps families cope with sh1t and has brought communities together.

The vast majority of religious people just live their life, and let others live their lives. We aren't going point out a few bad apples, because their have been more than a few evil atheist in history.

Religion doesn't stop scientific growth in the world. Think about it... only recently has atheism even been worth discussing. Prior to that we went from making cutting tools from rock to emailing each other around the world- A mostly religious world.

And u really should read my post above this one. and then just sit down.

 

[NoMayo15]

To be completely honest with you, I'm actually flabbergasted that you're asking me this question. Take a big guess.

And please, do not place within the sphere of people that are anti-science or whatever. I just felt the need to preempt given the history of HL whenever someone points out a flaw in people's reasoning....and then somehow you're equated with defending an entire system of belief.

I wouldn't dare do the latter. But no, I'm genuinely stumped. I understand there has been some junk science in the past century or so to promote things like eugenics ... but I'm asking when has there been some sort of demonstrable scientific fact that was used to subjugate the masses by a select few? Keep in mind, I think the overall point is that religion has done a significant amount of inhibit progress as a whole, where as science, for the most part, has done much more in facilitating the progress of humanity.

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

You are obsessed. However, I think you're just misguided and confused. You think that religion has brought more harm than good. Individually it helps families cope with sh1t and has brought communities together.

The vast majority of religious people just live their life, and let others live their lives. We aren't going point out a few bad apples, because their have been more than a few evil atheist in history.

Religion doesn't stop scientific growth in the world. Think about it... only recently has atheism even been worth discussing. Prior to that we went from making cutting tools from rock to emailing each other around the world- A mostly religious world.

And u really should read my post above this one. and then just sit down.

Big coincidence that the more knowledge and information that our new technology is bringing the bigger % of the population becomes atheist/agnostic as religion is dying.. Information is the key in the lock

There are more than a few examples of religion hindering scientific advancement. Bush had stem cell research banned for 8 fukking years.

 

[No1]

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

Obviously science worked hand in hand with religion

Scientific racism is pseudo-science. We have a much better understanding of science and the scientific process now and enough intelligent people to expose it.

I'm obsessed? I can't even open up facebook without seeing some dumb fukking religious person saying that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry. sorry for being disgusted enough by it to make a thread

I'm not on your facebook. I'm moderating this site where these offshoot threads get made so much that we sit back and wonder whether to create a sub-forum for it every two or three weeks. This is all repetition. I generally don't have an issue with it, but it's also not a figment of my imagination. I generally don't have an issue with it because it seems to bring about a lot of discussion and it's hard as heck to moderate from an organizational standpoint Second, I appreciate that you ignored me pointing out that it was religious philosophers that brought about much of the very same logic you're saying is the basis of scientific inquiry. To make the argument that science and societal progression are incompatible is ridiculous and that is the underlying argument that you're making. You can call it psuedo-science if you want, but that realization only came about as society became enlightened to these facts.

That is my entire point, you're making a meaningless distinction because because it took enlightenment within the scientific community to dispel what was conventional wisdom that justified the enslavement of people of color for one and caste systems based on racial lines.

One could easily say that the religious justifications and the "white man's burden" was a subversion of Christianity and an interpretation of the Bible crafted to fit the underlying the desire of greed and that those interpretations are dispelled now because those underlying justifications are not longer palatable to the majority of peoples. Your problem is that you put science on a pedestal and consider it above human emotional, political and societal persuasion but assume that religion is an inherently flawed enterprise with a consistent mode of thought that is inherently counterproductive rather than a result of the aforementioned flaws.

The problem is that religion is more susceptible to these devises. But half the people on my feed rallying against abortion are agnostic or very liberal on most other issues. Using your facebook feed as proxy for society isn't something very scientific...is it...

 

[Higher Tech]

*have the op on ignore*

Man, religion has for better or worse brought people together for a common good, the bible has some solid teachings just listen to the gems Jesus drops even if you don't believe in him his ideas are easily understandable, really get what he says, great charity works are done by churches (food drives, missionary works, help for homeless/waywards, christmass wish funds etc)

It provides a moral framework for others to build upon and around.

Besides the bible pretty much spurred the invention of the printing press, the need for it was so great that it is the most widely circulated book in the history of mankind, that in itself speaks volumes.

Yea, but a lot of them come together to kill people. Religion does more bad than good on a large scale. On a small scale maybe it is a good thing.

 

[acri1]

I don't think religion is anti-science so much as it is that it limits people's thinking and is anti-anything that could conflict with it. Most religious people tend to be fine with science unless it specifically puts into question some tenet of their religion. A lot of religious types have issues with Evolution or the Big Bang theory, but I don't know too many that don't believe in chemistry. In addition people may be less likely to inquire about things if they're content to attribute natural phenomena to "god".

For example, in the 1600s Galileo proposed that the Sun was the center of the solar system and that the earth revolved around it. Today we know this is correct, but at the time the Catholic church didn't like it because they felt it conflicted with the bible. Eventually he was found guilty of heresy and sentenced to house arrest for the rest of his life (not to mention his works, and any works promoting the idea that the earth revolved around the sun, were banned). It wasn't until over a century later that the church stopped prohibiting books promoting heliocentrism. Of course, once they decided that the idea didn't conflict with the bible, they were fine with it. A lot of people felt the same way about the Big Bang theory.

That said, there have also been plenty of religious institutions that were fairly pro-science - as long as said science doesn't conflict with religious traditions. It really depends. Sometimes I wonder tho, how many people might have kept useful ideas to themselves out of fear of offending some religious authority.

 

[No1]

I wouldn't dare do the latter. But no, I'm genuinely stumped. I understand there has been some junk science in the past century or so to promote things like eugenics ... but I'm asking when has there been some sort of demonstrable scientific fact that was used to subjugate the masses by a select few? Keep in mind, I think the overall point is that religion has done a significant amount of inhibit progress as a whole, where as science, for the most part, has done much more in facilitating the progress of humanity.

No one said that religion was used to subjugate the masses, I'm saying that science has been used as justification for terrorizing people very-much like science has. I just explained that with the example of I gave Blake. No one said it was the main propeller, but it was part of the equation. It was used to justify discriminatory social structures. It was why Indians were placed above black africans in the South Africa social structure, etc. To try to toss it out as junk science is to ignore the fact that at one point it was largely accepted by segments of the scientific community. Only a generation ago the idea that the negro had never had a "creative thought" was part of the justification of colonization.

Blake lives out there in Kentucky where he attributes everything negative to religion. Whereas Catholics vote blue at a higher rate than the country as a whole. Where on the East Coast religious people are some of the largest supporters of liberal causes. Where the Civil Rights movement was largely born of religious organizing. The same religion that had been used to justify the subjugation of those peoples. Where Black people, the most religious people in the country, support same-sex marriage at a higher rate than the public as a whole. To continue on with this simplistic argument that religion = bad more often than not is to take the same shortcut towards solutions that atheists often claim religious people take. It's an invitation to ignore the underlying circumstances under which different belief systems emerge. It could easily be argued that religiosity is tied these circumstances and that religion itself is not the cause of problems, but the role that these people need religion to play in their lives.

More often than not, when it comes to religion, same-sex marriage, etc., it is people using religion to justify biases they already have against things that disgust them. You can see it in how they go against what their religion may preach in other circumstances if read by the letter or interpreted literally. Often it is just people holding onto old traditions.

Religion has inhibited progress in many ways, but to argue that if we take out religion that we will just move forward is lazy and it is what Blake not so subtly professes. Religion and science used to go hand in hand dating back centuries. Blake uses George W. Bush as an example, but doesn't look deeper into the demographics and social, educational and economic situations of people that compose the religious right. I really wish I had the time tonight to go into that further, but I just don't.

 

[Blackking]

That said, there have also been plenty religious institutions that were fairly pro-science - as long as said science doesn't conflict with religious traditions. It really depends. Sometimes I wonder tho, how many people might have kept ideas to themselves out of fear of offending some religious authority.

@Higher Tech @Sensitive Blake Griffin @NoMayo15
That said, we are going to continue to claim that religion hinders scientific and technological advancement... when we know that with the majority of the world religious and most of the inventors, scientist, leaders, and philosophers being religious throughout history.. we went from beating rocks to outer space and cloning animals.

I understand that people want to pretend that a belief in God hinders critical thinking, logic, etc. That is just not true. How can you hype up science and dis religion and then turn around and say something psychologically false like that?

Has anyone noticed the number of anti religion threads and the not so many, if any, anti science threads. Most religious people enjoy and support scientific efforts.

Human beings have done things to control others and hinder ideas, with or without religion. Only a few have used religion to hinder some idea of scientific advancement. But to make generalizing statements like the one's you all are making is just dumb. So for example, I have people that work with me that could steal the accounts of thousands of people, take their savings and probably not get caught - if that happened technology would not be to blame for the devastation that would cause. If my neighbor developed a biological disease or virus that could be spread easily, and he got upset and put it in the University's water system... I'm not going to be an idiot and say that the study of biology is to blame.

We're on here reaching for the stars bringing up Bush and Stem cell's n sh1t. When we know that ethical ramifications are considered on a variety of topics, by people who are believers or not believers. Not to mention most religious people aren't against stem cell research and most Muslims consider it fard for us to pursue this, due to it's potential.

Agree with the OP, and you're as ignorant as a bible thumper who cares about ho.mo marriage. I don't care, but I don't see how either side can claim they're right. Anti gay marriage people, have sucky arguments..and the lawyer for the GOP is doing a HORRIBLE job right now- it's embarrassing, even Sotomayor is tearing him up.

However, marriage was created 10's of thousands of years ago.. FOR a purpose, preserving the family structure and insuring that people play their roles. Men + Woman. Now 10's of thousands of years later we randomly want to add same sex and re-define the concept. Well why can't we met in the middle and not change the meaning of something that has meant something to humans for so long... ? Why couldn't gays come up with a word, and purpose to get the rights while calling it something else? There is an entire LGBT vocabulary so you can't tell me they can't come up with words and meanings. Easier solution would have been a fight to equate the rights of civil unions to that of marriage.. Not Forcibly attempt to change the minds, comfort, mindset, traditions, and definitions of billions of people all at once, Just because the smallest fraction of a society says so.

 

[Mowgli]

It holds us back from making a more perfect nation -- one that gives each individual equal protection under the law, regardless of race, gender, creed, or sexual orientation.

Are you serious with this bullshyt? Thats how religion is holding us back? Is this the new liberal constitution. Sexual orientation. I always knew you fakkit lovers had a thing for beast lovers, p3dos and necrophiliacs and the incestuous. I remember you on sohh admitting you're cool with a man marrying his mother and them having the same rights as homos because it doesnt effect you. It was at that moment i knew i didnt have to respect your pathetic thoughts as it concerns equality.

 

[ltheghost]

It's all fear of the unknown. Anything that doesn't fit the religious person's view of the world creates fear. Its something they cannot refer to in their holy books. So they are scared mainly. Like they are less special because someone who doesn't believe like they believe gets the same rights as they do. Its the inner thought that there is nothing special about them or what they worship. Because everyone is moving on without caring for their God. Its crazy when you think about it but human beings are advancing beyond religion because honestly, I feel like we are looking for more than what is talked about in the books. We want to explore the universe, have advances in technology, and science. Religion has to update itself. The same tired rules only apply to a limited amount of things today. Gay people will get married and the world will still be here tomorrow. Nothing is going to get worse or better because of it.