Why is Michael Jordan generally considered to be the GOAT? What would you say to persuade me to believe he's the best if I don't think so? 🫠

[marleyg]

hEAven

 

[LV Koopa]

I believe his point is why are you looking at just those two seasons trying to make a point.

And are you familiar with the Bulls teams of ‘84 and ‘85? You understand they sucked so bad that that’s how they got MJ in the first place? He went to a team that was 27-55. So to say he didn’t win any playoff games in the first two years means nothing. Oh and he basically missed the entire second season with a broken foot.

Since you missed the implication: It's about Lebron's playoff failures being a point of discussion whereas MJ's are completely absent in most discussions. Any season where he didn't win a championship and his struggles are conveniently forgotten.

We know those teams were trash. And that is why when we compare Jordan to other GOATS, his ability to elevate bad teams is never spoken of. It's not a knock against him but a point in favor of other players - but again, this does NOT get mentioned because the Jordan narrative has to trump all.

 

[Scientific Playa]

This reminds me, @Scientific Playa is the only poster on here older than Mike. Do you follow ball, and if so where do you stand in relation to Mike and the GOAT debate?

Yes, I still follow ball. I told the coli I took my high school girl to MSG when it first opened. I was a knicks fan for most of my life until
Dolan the owner disrespected Charles Oakley and a few lifetime fans.
Mike has NYC and NC connections like me.
I don't do the comparison thing since I have so many decades of watching NBA stars and championship teams under my belt. I remember when the league almost folded up due to very low attendance and sponsorship. I'm happy to see an multi-billion dollar global business doing very well today.

Pat Riley aka the Godfather paid Mike the ultimate honor and respect.

Pat Riley Congratulated Michael Jordan After The Miami Heat Retired His Number 23 Jersey: "No Player Will Ever Wear Number 23 For The Heat Again. You’re The Best.”​

My Knicks shirt is prolly older than many on this app.

Pic taken from the balcony of Yvette Prieto, Jordan's future wife while working.

Spoiler: Top Secret

Gloria James tried to holla @ S.P.

 

[Pack2]

My dad and I first had this "who do you think is the GOAT" around a decade or so, give or take. Probably a little longer, it was in the early 2010s, because I got outta prison in October 2009. Somewhere in the early 10s I thought to ask him this and it comes up on average once every year or so because he watches ball...

I remember the very first time I asked him this, he told me Kobe and Mike were equals, and he reaffirmed this opinion about 2 years ago. I don't agree with him on this, I personally think Kobe's slightly overrated. But my dad said he doesn't see the gap between Kobe and Mike, literally said "there ain't one"...

When LeBron entered the convo my dad said he could easily make the argument of LeBron as a better player than Mike. And in a nutshell, again this is a 58-year old nikka who watched all that 80s ball in real time that nikkas who were kids glamorize on here, he gets tired of people "overrating" how good those Pistons, Celtics, and Lakers were in the 80s. But he will point out how Mike wasn't winning championships when those teams were winning...

My dad was a Sixers and Bucks fan coming up, still roots for those teams lightweight. Dr J Super Stan Hates the Lakers, hates the Celtics, and he likes Mike and says he clearly has a case as GOAT, but never once thought I the 80s or 90s that he was watching THE greatest player ever...

He likes Kareem but doesn't think he the GOAT either, my dad is more along the lines of, there can be no one GOAT because the game evolves and changes with each era, nikkas are not playing the same competition under the same rules. I get that, I slightly disagree with this too, because I think there are a literal handful of guys that stand out regardless of era (Bron and Mike would transcend any era of ball), but I get that line of thought. Don't tell me someone is greater than someone because he dominated ___ era when the dudes we comparing him to were of a different era...

I did time in the 00s and met plenty of OGs who valued other guys as GOAT and/or just don't think Mike is "the" GOAT. This is not a unique viewpoint and we know mad older NBA guys don't see Mike as the GOAT either. Only on this board with everyone younger than Mike by 15 years plus, do nikkas act like it's blasphemous that you don't see Mike as GOAT. We all know the consensus opinion says he is, and we all know why. But it's not unusual to find guys who don't think Mike is GOAT if you've talked to enough people...

This reminds me, @Scientific Playa is the only poster on here older than Mike. Do you follow ball, and if so where do you stand in relation to Mike and the GOAT debate?

Well I guess that settles it. Your pops doesn’t think Jordan is the GOAT. Jordan not the GOAT.

 

[murksiderock]

Well I guess that settles it. Your pops doesn’t think Jordan is the GOAT. Jordan not the GOAT.

Glad that works for you. As for myself, I can think independent of anyone else. I never thought Mike was the GOAT, still don't, and I'm 34 and grew up in the immediate generation after his where we were all told Mike was the greatest thing we'd ever see. I never bought it even as a young boy following hoops and hearing and seeing all the Mike Propaganda...

 

[Bolzmark]

Since you missed the implication: It's about Lebron's playoff failures being a point of discussion whereas MJ's are completely absent in most discussions. Any season where he didn't win a championship and his struggles are conveniently forgotten.

We know those teams were trash. And that is why when we compare Jordan to other GOATS, his ability to elevate bad teams is never spoken of. It's not a knock against him but a point in favor of other players - but again, this does NOT get mentioned because the Jordan narrative has to trump all.

Let me help you understand why this is a point of discussion. Firstly, its not about all playoff losses, its about Finals losses. And let me say now that all of LeBrons Finals losses should not count against him. I'm counting those where he had a team that either SHOULD have won or it was definetly within reach. For example the first one in 2007. Brons team was trash, so it should not count against him. In the first loss to the Warriors his two other stars (Kyrie, Love) were hurt so that shouldn't count against him. And the other two not really because the Warriors had a virtual all-star team with KD and that was corny.

HOWEVER, there are two Finals that absolutely must be held against him. Where he had teams with HOF teammates and didn't get the job done. The second worst was the 2014 Finals against the Spurs. Lost 4-1. How you damm near get swept and you got THREE other HOF players playing with you???

But the absolute WORST was the loss to the Mavs in 2011. LeBron averaged 4 points in the 4th quarter in that series JJ Barea was lockin this niqqa down

When MJ was supposed to win, HE WON. Period. Nobody with knowledge of basketball is going to count playoff losses with a garbage Bulls team to the legendary Celtics, just like those I mentioned when LeBron was on garbage teams or playing a literal all-star team. But a couple of them do count and that one against the Mavs should have permanently killed this comparison.

 

[LV Koopa]

Let me help you understand why this is a point of discussion. Firstly, its not about all playoff losses, its about Finals losses. And let me say now that all of LeBrons Finals losses should not count against him. I'm counting those where he had a team that either SHOULD have won or it was definetly within reach. For example the first one in 2007. Brons team was trash, so it should not count against him. In the first loss to the Warriors his two other stars (Kyrie, Love) were hurt so that shouldn't count against him. And the other two not really because the Warriors had a virtual all-star team with KD and that was corny.

HOWEVER, there are two Finals that absolutely must be held against him. Where he had teams with HOF teammates and didn't get the job done. The second worst was the 2014 Finals against the Spurs. Lost 4-1. How you damm near get swept and you got THREE other HOF players playing with you???

But the absolute WORST was the loss to the Mavs in 2011. LeBron averaged 4 points in the 4th quarter in that series JJ Barea was lockin this niqqa down

When MJ was supposed to win, HE WON. Period. Nobody with knowledge of basketball is going to count playoff losses with a garbage Bulls team to the legendary Celtics, just like those I mentioned when LeBron was on garbage teams or playing a literal all-star team. But a couple of them do count and that one against the Mavs should have permanently killed this comparison.

This post you just made is LITERALLY an example of the Jordan narrative. How are you going to tell me about the implication of a point I originally made that you misunderstood? I explained it as simply as possible and your VERY first point is it's not about playoff losses, but Finals losses. Then you go on to tell us what MUST be held against Lebron - but in no point in that drivel did you ever take the time to put context into Jordan's career. All we got is a line about when MJ was "supposed" to win, he won. I can't even make this shyt up. I explicitly said with MJ its all about narrative, you misunderstood it, and then go right into a narrative based diatribe.

You are a caricature of foolishness

 

[iceberg_is_on_fire]

The simple answer is marketing. NBA and media were pushing him as the GOAT before he even won 3 championships.

Bobby Knight called MJ the GOAT before he even stepped on an NBA Court.

He averaged 28.2 points, 6.5 rebounds, 5.9 assists, 2.4 steals a game on 51% shooting as a rookie. Why in the world would he need a machine behind him? His game did all the talking.

The man was simply just that great.

 

[murksiderock]

This post you just made is LITERALLY an example of the Jordan narrative. How are you going to tell me about the implication of a point I originally made that you misunderstood? I explained it as simply as possible and your VERY first point is it's not about playoff losses, but Finals losses. Then you go on to tell us what MUST be held against Lebron - but in no point in that drivel did you ever take the time to put context into Jordan's career. All we got is a line about when MJ was "supposed" to win, he won. I can't even make this shyt up. I explicitly said with MJ its all about narrative, you misunderstood it, and then go right into a narrative based diatribe.

You are a caricature of foolishness

The other 9 years of Mike's career don't really count unless we talking the 63-piece or the MVP/DPOY '88 year. This is the sliding criteria that only comes up in conversations about LeBron. Every LeBron season matters, even him being an old man expected to compete at the highest level; regardless of what the "three HOFers" were contributing around him, every nit is picked with LeBron...

With anyone else I'm comparison, and especially Mike, there is no nitpicking. There are no critiques. Nothing else ever really happened in his career besides the 6 years his team won the chip, doesn't even matter that Bron met 7 teams in The Finals better than the best team Mike met there...

 

[Bolzmark]

This post you just made is LITERALLY an example of the Jordan narrative. How are you going to tell me about the implication of a point I originally made that you misunderstood? I explained it as simply as possible and your VERY first point is it's not about playoff losses, but Finals losses. Then you go on to tell us what MUST be held against Lebron - but in no point in that drivel did you ever take the time to put context into Jordan's career. All we got is a line about when MJ was "supposed" to win, he won. I can't even make this shyt up. I explicitly said with MJ its all about narrative, you misunderstood it, and then go right into a narrative based diatribe.

You are a caricature of foolishness

Well part of what you said was imaginary bullsh!t. Lebron is not criticized more than Jordan for ALL playoff losses. You made that sh!t up in your head. I will however admit that he is overly criticized for his Finals losses. I can't address some nonsense you created. I can only address what reality is.

Fukk a narrative. Jordan is a better all around player PERIOD. All this crying about criticism of LeBron is meaningless.

 

[FAH1223]

Two 3peats make you the

A song named after you

 

[Bolzmark]

LeBron does beat MJ in wife selection though. Savannah bad AF. No competition there

 

[fifth column]

You got kd ranked higher then curry why is that? But on a more serious note I just tried to look and see where u made that statement about kd being better then curry and breh do you know since July 11th all your posts have been about lebron James. I don't even expect a reply to this but you nikkas wild lol

I had KD ranked higher than Curry at one point in their careers but Curry passed him on the all time list with the 2022 chip. it’s called new information. What would you like me to talk about since you want to own my coli experience?

 

[fifth column]

You really comparing jokic to Oliver miler? LmAo Jordan Stans

 

[fifth column]

So what's your excuse then, you're like 27 or 28 you weren't born before 1995 at the earliest so how the fukk you come to the conclusion a man you never saw is the greatest player ever

This also isn't true anyway. Again my dad was born in 1965, saw Mike play in person in college, watched his entire career college to pro. Does not think Michael Jordan is the greatest player ever. Plenty of guys older than Mike don't think he's the GOAT, they saw dudes before him play...

This nikka said "LeBron isn’t that good"...

Bruh that nugga loves him some LeBron. He on a 2-week binge, he goes on these binges time to time where the only thing he talks about is LeBron

I do like Lebron as a basketball player, I never denied that. I despise y’all church of Bron worshippers though with all the spreadsheet basketball stuff that y’all try to force in the fake MJ vs Bron debate