Why is it so hard for the Democratic Party to take accountability?

KamikazePilot

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Trump actions and the MAGA movement don’t always go hand in hand though. We’re seeing that everyday as his supporters are being left out to dry on some issues and as he struggles to try and do others.

Neoliberal republicans understand the importance of undocumented workers to do the shyt work. MAGA wants them all out.

Neoliberal conservatives are financially sound and worried about the stock market, MAGA is worried about gas and food prices. Neoliberal conservatives know taxes are stupid, but MAGA thinks they are punitive on other countries. Neolibera conservatives realizes a long time ago that they can make money with black people even if they don’t socialize with them. MAGA is literally trying to get black people fired from jobs they can’t replace them in.

The two are not the same, if a neoliberal republican was elected we probably wouldn’t be teetering on an economic crash while planes fall out of the sky. It would be business as usual with the democrats being there as staged opposition. MAGA are so disruptive, democrats are actually being forced to leave the halls of Congress and argue with a security guard and fail to move him because that would require real fighting.

There are legit progressives in the Democratic Party too but they are ostracized to being at best thought leaders.

There main difference between conservatives populism and liberal populism is the head figure Trump was willing to burn the party down to get leadership and Bernie tried twice to win through the system that was designed to keep his type of politician out of power.

Don’t even get me started on how Citizen United allowed billionaires to usurp the conservatives populist movement to the literal point Elon fukking Musk is firing government employees and downloading everyone social security numbers.

It’s all very absurd and surreal and the only way it gets fixed is we see a constitutional crisis around removing Citizen United in four years (if the democrats win the presidency) or the progressives in the party split into their own party knowing they will do the heavy lifting in four years to get the voting public interested in a neoliberal democrat by giving their endorsement.

Honestly it might take both actions happening in reverse order. The progressives form their own party, they endorse a mainstream Dem who agrees ton enact their policies, and then that same Dem either goes at citizen United directly or makes edits to the SC to get a court that would make that change.
To have a really progressive party you have to have real money that supports it and also your own propaganda like the news or social media site and I don’t know who with big money would ever support that.

Also you need a plan, you need an agenda that most people agree with and you have to compromise on that agenda, some progressives just want free healthcare but are pure brainwashed neoliberals and some progressives are communists it’s like how do you get them to agree to an agenda?

It’s a fukked up spot we find ourselves in not finna lie :francis: but maybe if this system comes crashing down something new and potentially better can come from it.
 

Drip Bayless

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You're conceding the core of my argument but still trying to frame the Democrats as having most of the advantages, which isn't true for the reasons I laid out.

Big Tech wasn't neutral. Facebook and YouTube prioritized right-wing content because it drove engagement and profit. Far-right influencers dominated the algorithm the entire election cycle. That's why people like Ben Shapiro consistently dominated Facebook's most-viewed posts during the cycle. The claim that tech only shifted to Trump *after* the election is false.
Yeah you're right, I was wrong to say that. But this inevitably circles back to the larger problem of capitalism and corporate prioritization of profits over people. The government should've reeled big tech in years ago before the Bezos and Musk were able to become the new Carnegies and Rockefellers, in a way its even worse than that because although the magnates of last century had more money when adjusted for inflation, the wage gap has widened 16x the ratio back then. As much shyt as I talk about the dems and genocide Joe, Lina Khan's FTC was the first time in a long time these tech oligarchs were taken to task. But tbh the dems were a minority from 2014-2016 and this technology is so new that I can't blame them in this specific instance, but this is still another effect of the government not holding corporations accountable (something dems have benefited and perpetuated even though they didnt neccesarily start it).
As far as Amazon, they're not just an online retailer, it's a tech giant with massive influence over the digital advertising ecosystem. A ton of sites and ad servers run on AWS, which means Amazon controls a huge chunk of the infrastructure that powers online ads. Bezos also owns the Washington Post. You can't have a conversation about Big Tech and advertising w/o mentioning them. Same with Patrick Soon-Shiong and the LA Times.
Amazon does a bunch of bullshyt, they shouldve been checked a long time ago, but you need to show evidence of AWS boosting right wing content. They suspended Parler and programmatic ads have much stricter brand safety restrictions than the content made by creators and right wing think tanks allowed on social media sites like YT and Meta. AdX has also demonitized right wing sites like Breitbart, right wing struggle with programmatic and its the same for CTV (streaming).I didn't know he owns the Washington Post.
And calling Trump's mainstream media coverage "negative" ignores the actual framing. Sure, there were criticisms, but they constantly normalized him and legitimized his candidacy. The media loved amplifying right-wing attacks and repeating GOP narratives about her competence. Even after four years in office, and an insurrection, Trump still got the full benefit of being framed as the outsider under attack, which only helped to energize his base.
CNN was on his ass about Jan 6. 24/7! :why:,now you're just capping, name these media companies then, look at all the ones I've named. You've got the Times and WAPO. Fox News and NY Post are republican owned. You have to show evidence, you can't just say it.
The bar was so low for Trump that all it took for him to be labeled as "disciplined" was to limit his hateful rhetoric to two unhinged rants a day instead of five.

As far as the identity politics claim, she deliberately avoided centering her campaign on her race and gender. It was her opposition that weaponized identity, questioning her Blackness and claiming she was "pretending" to be Black for political gain. If anyone leaned into identity politics, it was her critics, not her. And framing her campaign messaging as purely reactionary ignores the real policies she ran on. She didn't run explicitly on trans rights either, and the women's issues she emphasized were directly tied to the very real threats to reproductive freedom, not niche culture war battles. Like, you are being incredibly uncharitable here. And like every other critic on here using misleading right-wing framing as the base of your criticism.

The dems lost six million voters and the republicans gained three million. I dont wanna make it sound like I'm going in on Harris cause they essentially threw her to the wolves by giving her 104 days without winning a primary, my point was she didn't do herself that many favors. Why did their base lose double what the GOP gained? The dems lost the election, the GOP didn't steal it:
  • They killed themselves by not getting genocide Joe out the paint earlier which handicapped Harris from the beginning, that is an institutional failure. Another one dems have been complicit in benefiting from, and it came back to bite them, look at pelosi/mcconnell old asses, but like I'm saying, there's old money on both sides doing everything they can to leverage their boomer wealth to loot the economy and prevent good policy from being enacted.
  • I never disagreed with anybody that racism/misogyny played a part, I just said you can't blame it solely on that. And people are telling me I'm living in the clouds for demanding better policy from dems, but everybody knows Americans are racist, stupid, and sexist. So if we know that, then we know putting a black woman out there with one hundred and four days is political suicide. Whitmer would've lost in the same circumstances as well. So, that's a failure on dems as well.
  • Abortion is a very important issue, but see what I said about misogyny above, the dems banked on white women saving them for the second time in a row, when Hillary taught us white women won't vote based on representation or reproductive rights, you can't operate completely based on how the world should be in politics. The economy was the main issue this election. And of course Trump's policy is nonexistent in this department but, I already told you the dems get held to a higher standard, their policy was better but their messaging wasn't. Look at how these MAGA idiots kept running around yelling about eggs. And they've improved the economy, but because Americans don't understand that policy can take years to take effect they don't get credit. They are too soft on the housing crisis, income inequality, and corporate overreach.
  • They don't have metrics for how much she spoke about LGBTQ issues, I was going off anectodal evidence. I specifically remember her flip flopping on gender affirming care during an interview. I understand the GOP blasted a lot of propaganda about trans issues, so I could be wrong.
And on Gaza, we agree, Democratic leadership alienated key parts of their base by ignoring calls to stop funding genocide.
  • and this. Gaza was another one of the biggest things that cost them.
 
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fakkit Demic00ns still thinking Mammala was a great candidate :mjlol:
Are people on here okay with this white Trump supporting wrestling neckbeard calling Black people c00ns? And using nikka?


fukk it, I'm voting for Trump

Trump swaggin on these nikkas

Trump swag on another level right now

Trump swag right now doe

Obviously Trump isn't going to care about negroes bashing each other's brains in

Trump just having fun outchea, let the man cook
 

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Imagine thinking this response to Trump and the changes the Dems need to make





Is better than this




Just look at the comments of both. Nobody is feeling Hakeem's response, and people here are acting like the Dems sticking with the same old same is the way to go:snoop:
 

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Compared these tweets on January 26 between the Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries and Bernie Sanders




And you got brehs saying
Aight... losing it is
And @Marc Spector saying people don't want progressive policies when you bring up the problems with the Dems sticking with their moderate game plan :francis:
 
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HabitualChiller

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All this talk and it’s all cause of citizen United. If you understand what that is, then you understand why America is broken
Money has quite literally been in politics for faaarrr longer than CU has been in place.

Trump is just a new age Reagan in that he's the perfect guy for Fiscal Conservatives, Christian Conservatives, and Interventionalists to rally behind.
 
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NYC Rebel

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Money has quite literally been politics for faaarrr longer than the CU has been in place.

Trump is just a new age Reagan in that he's the perfect guy for Fiscal Conservative, Christian Conservatives, and Interventionalists to rally behind.
Nah. Since Citizens United, if 100% of Americans want a bill passed there’s a 30% chance Congress will pass it. And if 0% of Americans don’t want a bill passed there’s STILL a 30% chance Congress will pass it. Public opinion has ZERO bearing on laws in the U.S. since CU. What does matter is money with corporations and the wealthy getting to sway and influence elections.

And any Democratic means of trying to end it has been killed by Republican PACs. So whenever I hear clowns in here bringing up Obama’s grassroots win, I laugh because those days are over proving they dont know shyt but to criticize Dems .
 
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HabitualChiller

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Nah. Since Citizens United, if 100% of Americans want a bill passed there’s a 30% chance Congress will pass it. And if 0% of Americans don’t want a bill passed there’s STILL a 30% chance Congress will pass it. Public opinion has ZERO bearing on laws in the U.S. since CU. What does matter is money with corporations and the wealthy getting to sway and influence elections.

And any Democratic means of trying to end it has been killed by Republican PACs. So whenever I hear clowns in here bringing up Obama’s grassroots win, I laugh because those days are over


Just gonna leave that here.

The wealthy and corporations have always been able to influence elections. As it stands, there are too many loopholes in regard to all things finance (from millionaires & billionaires having vast amounts of wealth in assets like stocks and real estate, then electing to take out loans with said assets as collateral in order to avoid paying that 37% income tax, to corporations being able to buy candidates on the sly by donating to the party instead of the individual, etc.)
 

NYC Rebel

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Just gonna leave that here.

The wealthy and corporations have always been able to influence elections. As it stands, there are too many loopholes in regard to all things finance (from millionaires & billionaires having vast amounts of wealth in assets like stocks and real estate, then electing to take out loans with said assets as collateral in order to avoid paying that 37% income tax, to corporations being able to buy candidates on the sly by donating to the party instead of the individual, etc.)

The numbers with regards to bills going through became what they became after citizens United
 

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Money has quite literally been politics for faaarrr longer than the CU has been in place.

Trump is just a new age Reagan in that he's the perfect guy for Fiscal Conservative, Christian Conservatives, and Interventionalists to rally behind.
He straight up jacked Reagan. Even took Make America Great Again from him.
 

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Fake super leftists who shyt on dems but side step Republicans are wild, this country beyond cooked.
Plenty of room to shyt on both. But establishment Democrats deserve criticism for how far they have strayed from their base. Ever since Carter's defeat in 1980 they have been moving away from the labor class and listening to corporations/donors
 
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All over this board and in real life I'm constantly inundated by talk of how stupid and racist American voters are, "they voted for this", "
... "they get what they deserve," yadda yadda. As if the outcomes of our elections are purely the result of rational, independent choices made by an informed populace. The irony is this is the exact kind of take that highlights just how ignorant Americans are, that people actually believe for a second that we have free elections. Americans are ignorant for sure, they're ignorant of the massive structural forces that shape voting behavior: corporate media propaganda, billionaire-funded disinformation, gerrymandering, voter suppression, and the corporate backed duopoly system that all work together to make us think we have the illusion of choice.

Only the ignorant would assume voters have a magical love of billionaires or are all inherently too stupid to vote in their best interest. Because Americans have been systematically conditioned to accept a false reality, where class solidarity is buried under culture wars, and the most powerful forces in the world work overtime to convince them that their enemies are immigrants, minorities, and homosexuals instead corporations and the 1% hoarding their wealth. Every election cycle, the ruling class spends trillions to control the narrative and manufacture consent for policies that serve the elite.

Yet, when things go south, the blame never ever falls on the corporate donors, the politicians who sabotage progress, or the billionaire-owned media networks that push propaganda 24/7. Instead, it’s always, “the voters are just too stupid.” The real danger in this analysis isn't the laziness, but the fact that it’s exactly what the ruling class wants people to believe. If you convince people that change is impossible because "the masses are just too dumb," then you remove any accountability from the actual forces rigging the system and ensure that nothing ever changes. If Democrats geniuinely believe that a significant portion of this country is too racist or too ignorant to vote for a Black woman, then isn’t it an even bigger strategic failure that they didn’t account for that reality in their strategy? Either you believe in the voters’ ability to make rational choices and win them over, or you acknowledge their shortcomings and adjust your strategy accordingly. If the electorate is flawed, it’s not enough to just complain about it. A competent political party adjusts to reality and finds ways to win anyway. They don’t actually want to challenge the system in a way that would meaningfully redistribute power or wealth, because they are embedded in that system. That’s why they embrace symbolic progressivism like black faces in high places and identity politics, while refusing to push real economic populism or structural change.

Do American voters fall for racist, reactionary rhetoric? Absolutely. Do American voters vote based on culture war bullshyt rather than policy? Of course. But writing off the electorate as irredeemable ignores the fact that the vast majority of progressive policies are actually popular when they're not attached to individuals or parties. The problem isn’t that Americans are inherently stupid or racist, it’s that the Dems are an integral part of the ruling class itself, and they will crush any populist resistance before it can threaten elite control.

No the voters didn’t just choose this in some vacuum of perfect rationality. If you’re mad at the outcomes of our elections, don’t just blame the voters, blame the oligarchs who buy our politicians, the media that launders their narratives, and the politicians who sell out their own base for corporate money. Anything else is just playing into their hands.
Summary:
The post argues that blaming voters as "stupid" or "racist" ignores the powerful forces shaping elections, like corporate media, billionaire influence, and voter suppression. It criticizes Democrats for relying on symbolic progressivism instead of real change and warns that this narrative benefits the ruling class by deflecting blame from those rigging the system.
Great summary, OP. Unfortunately, you have a major uphill battle and struggle on your hands. When a significant number of people (your base) think and acts like this whiny bytch (including those that dapped his post) then your team will need all the help they can get and all the luck of the gods. LOL
 

Formerly Black Trash

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You can keep stomping your feet and huffing and puffing that the country is not as progressive as you'd like OR you can meet people where they are and win elections.

The choice is yours. But believing that the Dems are not "progressive enough" is a losing strategy.

Might win you some elections here and there but not the White House.
Are the Democrats winning elections in the room with us right now?
 
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