why can't DC films be like the DC cartoons of 90s/early 2000s

[Art Barr]

Because of the Nolan series.

The 90s/00s cartoon were fun, funny, and didn’t try to hard to be cool or take itself too seriously.

Everything they were or did in the past is now looked at as signature thing of their competition and they look down on I like the competitors built the wheel

Martha

The nineties batman tas, supes, and jla were all dark and took themselves very seriously tho.
To the point they were a relaunch from the former abc jl campy cartoons shows that featured the wonder twins etc.

The batman tas, jla, and supes were all modeled after the very serious and dark burton series.
ALL those carttons were uber serious and that is why their take should be used for these movies. As it is the only time, dc or Warner in our Gen got the sentiment, content and properties of the jla, batman, lex and supes exactly right with no issue.
While also capturing the sentiment to market it accurately for kids.

The kids who were reared on those cartoons were actually spoiled.
Simply because they got the only thing out of all those gateway gems of dc characters and eras.
that they actually paid attention to real continuity, content, Tone and detail. It is the only thing done exactly right dc can point to.

As those cartoons are a far cry from the campy super friends take that aired on ABC. Plus campified the properties of supes, batman and the jla into the campy territory that destroyed their convincability and draw for two decades from the seventies to the nineties. That lead to reboot of dc's gateway characters for the later Gen from the super friends era and earlier campy Gens.



Art Barr

Retro blast'n has an excellent video on the campy ruin of the jla on ABC cartoon. Plus how dc botched the actual toys as well. To how they do not communicate properly to even the toy companies.
I will be back with the link.

 

[Art Barr]

If justice league, as is, were animated, people wouldnt complain at all. People give animation a big pass on a lot of things.

People would have complained if jla was animated because it would have been a step back from the 52 jl movie.

The reason why people are complaining now is because dc does not connect any dots to anything that is quality based for their dc films. When they have numerous properties and source material already in existence to draw from. Yet dc Continues to be completely inept. When it comes to recognizing quality and how to properly tell stories with these characters in the film medium. When no other medium in their company has these problems because they understand the nature of the source material and how to deviate if possible. With the dc films the people that make the films and service them to the public. Do not understand quality dynamics. They do not understand using source material and possibly amalgamating it from said source material either.


Art Barr

 

[Bryan Danielson]

The nineties batman tas, supes, and jla were all dark and took themselves very seriously tho.
To the point they were a relaunch from the former abc jl campy cartoons shows that featured the wonder twins etc.

The batman tas, jla, and supes were all modeled after the very serious and dark burton series.
ALL those carttons were uber serious and that is why their take should be used for these movies. As it is the only time, dc or Warner in our Gen got the sentiment, content and properties of the jla, batman, lex and supes exactly right with no issue.

Thr kids who were reared on those films were actually spoiled because they got the only thing out of all those gateway gems of dc fans that they actually paid attention to real continuity, content. Tone and detail. It is the only thing done exactly right dc can point to.

As those cartoons at a far cry from the campy super friends take that aired on ABC. Plus campified the properties of supes, batman and the jla into the campy territory that destroyed their convincability and draw. That lead to reboot of dc's gateway characters for the later Gen from the super friends era and earlier campy Gens.



Art Barr

I dont know.... I never felt they were "dark" and even more after DC Stans "GOD" cleared or cleaned up what it means to be dark.

Now were there some more serious moments? Yes..... but there was always humor and comedy and jokes. Especialy JLA..... Flash was straight comedy and the shyt on the JL base was always jokes







Martha

 

[Clark Wayne]

Yeah, the JL/JLU cartoon had more mature themes but it wasn't what I would call dark or gritty. That's the major difference.

Something can be mature or touch on adult themes without being dark.

I rewatch the Justice League cartoon every couple of years and I've never considered it gritty or grim dark.

 

[Art Barr]

I dont know.... I never felt they were "dark" and even more after DC Stans "GOD" cleared or cleaned up what it means to be dark.

Now were there some more serious moments? Yes..... but there was always humor and comedy and jokes. Especialy JLA..... Flash was straight comedy and the shyt on the JL base was always jokes







Martha

you my guy, but you must not have been old enough to see the wonder twins and the abc campy jl lineup that eventually when they tried to make it serious.
they dropped the ball on everything from the toy sizes, to the look to just sheer communication internally.
coupled with the fact, superman the live action reeves show was still on in syndication in the afternoon.
as well as the adam west batman were all on in syndication in the afternoon.
so, dc was completely welled and never moved from the campy direction.
till it was damn near so dead...they had to go get the director of beetle juice, and actually listen wholeheartedly to that type of person's direction on batman.
if we were to compare the directors of the campy tv show and direction of the burton movies and the later properties they are night and day.

all the jl, and batman tas, and supes with the brown lex were all serious iterations and also navigated the camp of the mother's group on an expert level.
that they never had the nonsensical comedy haha ending, and they always had excellent continuity.
whereas, the other previous campy abc lineup properties just threw shyt at the wall, and to quote retro blast'n.

the campy abc dc cartoon series was andy griffith in cartoon form on steriods.



art barr

also, all these clips are dark and you can tell just by the color palette.
if you saw the other versions it is completely immediate and striking in the difference in tone from visual to actual dialogue.

in the new series relaunch,....all the characters had excellent adult style actual dialogue.
that was arguably the most well written for a domestic cartoon probably ever in the wake of the mother's group destroying media for children and thus ruining america with it.


also, a lot of the interaction of the jl was basically lifted from the impact of star trek the next generations bar scenes in space as well. as that was also a successful relaunch that could be viewed as a deviation or amalgamated upgrade to the original star trek series as well.
plus, all the star trek next gen style background and dialogue could be viewed as adult as well.
not to mention, those dialogue style life setting are also viewed as being lifted from the social setting setup in alien and later aliens as well.

 

[Art Barr]

Yeah, the JL/JLU cartoon had more mature themes but it wasn't what I would call dark or gritty. That's the major difference.

Something can be mature or touch on adult themes without being dark.

I rewatch the Justice League cartoon every couple of years and I've never considered it gritty or grim dark.

it is completely dark, from the fact they always set up the show generally from the cold sterile environment of space as a backdrop in jl.
or generally from the lair of batman on the animated series.

the only time those cartoons took on a lighter approach was superman tas and that was just in the actual small lighting up of the color pallette to show contrast to the batman tas tv show.
while welling them in the same universe but still expressing this obvious change in direction visually that extended globally to a dark direction.
even in regards to supes tas, and the past superman cartoons post fleischer. all those past superman iterations are made with a vibrantly bright color palette.
on superman tas the color palette illustrates bright tones by using shaded oranges.
shaded oranges used to be the actual color tone of the legion of doom on the abc campy show as their general background color palette.
incomparison to shaded orange being the a-typical background palette color on superman tas.
just the fact the mignola style meets old fleischer dark inking style shows it is dark as well.
the use of black in this series should illustrate that as well.
as this series was tauted for its excellent use of black and minimalization as well.

which is a result of using dark themes as a constant.



art barr

 

[Bryan Danielson]

I feel you @Art Barr
and respect everything you saying.....

But just going off what DC God Snyder once said...... "if niccas aint getting raped or sucking no dikk, it aint dark"

Martha

 

[Art Barr]

I feel you @Art Barr
and respect everything you saying.....

But just going off what DC God Snyder once said...... "if niccas aint getting raped or sucking no dikk, it aint dark"

Martha

that same inability to reign it in to concise simple terms.
that are not welled in the extreme is why snyder failed as well, tho.
all the relaunches of the dc universe are welled in the dark knight frank miller versions of batman and superman.
before the dark knight, dc was waning and literally flopp'n around near death.
if not for the dark knight by miller and later burton taking it to the gateway level for batman 89.
batman and supes were more than likely going to meet the same fate as the phantom and the spirit.

it just so happened by batman 89 being so ahead of the everything.
it got to be made into a franchise that basically spearheaded the tone of the entire decade.
as it is the property that made and rejuvenated the entire dead properties of dc prospectively in one movie.
where, now dc just had to not fukk it up and they were gucci.

yet we see dc clings to the campy nature of batman and supes in their live action iterations and fukked it all up.
now, they fukked it all up twice.
so, we got to see this all get retconned or rebooted all over again.
or it quite possibly fails and is not successful and batman and superman get phased as far as being relevent gateway properties for the next gen.


art barr

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

If justice league, as is, were animated, people wouldnt complain at all. People give animation a big pass on a lot of things.

I don't agree with this. People didn't like the recent killing joke movie and that's a legendary comic book story line.