Whole Foods' Co-Founder John Mackey: "Why Intellectuals Hate Capitalism"

[King Kreole]

"Willingly..." when the alternative is possibly unemployment and the threat of homelessness, hunger/starvation, etc. that goes along with that.

Of course it isn't illegal. That kind of exploitation and value extraction is what capitalism is predicated upon.

Yes, willingly. No one is forcing anyone to work for company A or sign contract B. People sole-invent things every day without the imminent threat of homelessness, hunger or starvation, and overwhelming majority of those who are in such dire circumstances aren't there because they decided to be entrepreneurs. You can't use the backdrop of a fundamental reality of life - that some form of labour must be expended to survive - to criticize the alleged lack of freedom in capitalist societies. That factor exists in every society. What differs is that in a free market society, the decisions are in the hands of the people. The type of predation by monolithic and all-powerful forces leeching off the labour of the worker you're describing was actually a historical reality in non-capitalist countries, and it came from the government/monarch, not corporations. I prefer a system that puts the power in the hands of the people to decide for themselves how they allocate their efforts and allows them to reap the benefits of their labour.

 

[DEAD7]

Faulting people for inaction is wild
Collectivist really are something else.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Yes, willingly. No one is forcing anyone to work for company A or sign contract B. People sole-invent things every day without the imminent threat of homelessness, hunger or starvation, and overwhelming majority of those who are in such dire circumstances aren't there because they decided to be entrepreneurs. You can't use the backdrop of a fundamental reality of life - that some form of labour must be expended to survive - to criticize the alleged lack of freedom in capitalist societies. That factor exists in every society. What differs is that in a free market society, the decisions are in the hands of the people. The type of predation by monolithic and all-powerful forces leeching off the labour of the worker you're describing was actually a historical reality in non-capitalist countries, and it came from the government/monarch, not corporations. I prefer a system that puts the power in the hands of the people to decide for themselves how they allocate their efforts and allows them to reap the benefits of their labour.

Alternatives that people have had in the past do not exist in modern capitalism. The commons have been eroded; capital has put them under private control, and what little of the commons remains is always under constant assault by capital to break those walls down and privatize it.

It's crazy that you consider elites to be "the people." And what an artificial distinction the Right loves to make between so-called "government tyranny" and corporations. Why is the bourgeoisie considered "the people" but not governmental officials, the aristocracy, monarchs, etc.?

Faulting people for inaction is wild
Collectivist really are something else.

What are you talking about, "faulting people for inaction?"

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

OK I finally watched this.

Heres the thing about business in theory and business in practice.

Business in theory has "stakeholders" in every aspect of the business.

In reality, we operate under a system of capital rights. The ONLY thing keeping a lot of companies in check is bad press and litigation.... and if they can manage those things they are unstoppable. Uber is probably the biggest case. They are lobbying heavy to tear up any litigation they have to deal with, so they can pay uninsured rapists pennies on the dollar until they can replace them with self driving cars. This is all fact!!!! So while dude makes a great point that intellectuals are infuriated at how the mechanisms of capital demonstrates how impotent and functionally irrelevant they are on a practical level, I think it's silly to pretend like business is the hapless altruistic victim here. Everyone is looking out for self and no group better demonstrates this than business, which is why regulation is critical and absolutely necessary.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Capitalism works...WITH restraints.

U failed the test of true capitalism. According to capitalists, like this guy, restrictions are the only thing keeping it from working.

 

[JahFocus CS]

At this point I am going to bow out of this thread and other related threads as I will put together a post at a later date addressing the basic foundations of socialist theory and clearing up misconceptions, but here is a useful introduction to socialism: Capitalism, Class, & Class Struggle for (ex)Dummies

I am always willing to debate and discuss, but when people are willfully ignorant and/or don't have a basic foundation, it is basically useless to converse.

At the very least, read the above

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

U failed the test of true capitalism. According to capitalists, like this guy, restrictions are the only thing keeping it from working.

I've already said I don't deal in absolutes

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

At this point I am going to bow out of this thread and other related threads as I will put together a post at a later date addressing the basic foundations of socialist theory and clearing up misconceptions, but here is a useful introduction to socialism: Capitalism, Class, & Class Struggle for (ex)Dummies

I am always willing to debate and discuss, but when people are willfully ignorant and/or don't have a basic foundation, it is basically useless to converse.

At the very least, read the above

I really wonder why you think everyone has to agree with your notion that we should all share the same view of each other beyond the mere basics of citizenship...in as much to become rampant socialists like yourself.

 

[JahFocus CS]

I really wonder why you think everyone has to agree with your notion that we should all share the same view of each other beyond the mere basics of citizenship...in as much to become rampant socialists like yourself.

You can literally quote me earlier when I said I don't give a fukk about convincing you

Oppressed people need to get behind a project for their own liberation. Otherwise they will continue to be utterly fukked. Not to mention the planet in this case... and therefore the continued existence of humanity.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

You can literally quote me earlier when I said I don't give a fukk about convincing you

Oppressed people need to get behind a project for their own liberation. Otherwise they will continue to be utterly fukked. Not to mention the planet in this case... and therefore the continued existence of humanity.

Liberation?

Fam, even the language you use is...problematic.

 

[tmonster]

yeah fam...

 

[JahFocus CS]

Liberation?

Fam, even the language you use is...problematic.

See ya on the other side of the class struggle in the real world

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I've already said I don't deal in absolutes

Sure you do...... there is no questioning the American hegemony

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Sure you do...... there is no questioning the American hegemony

Sure there is. I do it all the time.

But I give the hegemony more leeway than I do internal political matters and I make no hesitation in admitting that.

I can balance my views on foreign and domestic policies by realizing that they require a different set of skills to make informed judgments.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Sure there is. I do it all the time.

But I give the hegemony more leeway than I do internal political matters and I make no hesitation in admitting that.

I can balance my views on foreign and domestic policies by realizing that they require a different set of skills to make informed judgments.

U give hegemony infinite leeway. US can do no wrong in its foreign policy except show weakness. I dont want to get into it over that though, I just took issue with your claim of ideological flexibility. Your posts scream otherwise.