Whole Foods' Co-Founder John Mackey: "Why Intellectuals Hate Capitalism"

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Talk about a strawman

I'm using the actual definition of dictatorship, not the bubblegum, exaggerated nonsense you're orally defecating

Fam, you said bosses are dictators!!!

How am I strawmannirg you?!

You're the one equating your boss at work to a dictator

COME ON FAM!!!!

Don't do this!!!

 

[tmonster]

SOME restraints are anti-free market. This is the problem with you. Its all or nothing and its frankly so insultingly childish I don't know how you managed to convince anyone you're a functional adult at times.

shut up

 

[tmonster]

I never said I supported "runaway capitalism"

Now tell me why socialism gets the benefit of the doubt from you more times than not

shut up and learn how to read

 

[tmonster]

Uh, I didn't say perception didn't exist.

what does that even mean?

Jesus Christ.

Jesus can't help you

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

shut up

muh socialisms

 

[tmonster]

The notion of human perfectibility is essential to communism. Without the idea that humans are consistently capable of putting aside their self-interest for the betterment of the collective, communism falls apart, which is what history has shown us.

Any source or evidence for these three claims you make here? They sound exaggerated and generalized as f*ck

The deleterious effects of unfettered capitalism is definitely a worthwhile subject, but there is room on the capitalist bench to discuss these issues as well. One doesn't have to hand in their capitalist card to be concerned with suffering. In fact, I find it to be quite the opposite. I very rarely hear people on the left acknowledge that capitalism has been the greatest engine for alleviating suffering in human history. Runaway capitalism is one thing, and I really enjoy Chomsky and Zinn and believe they are providing a very useful service, but the majority of modern leftist discourse isn't even adhering to historical fact. I'm all for calling for more restraints on capitalism as long as it's predicated on a well thought out and substantiated theory. I'm no anarcho-capitalist.

too much strawmanning and ad hominems to respond

I very rarely hear people on the left acknowledge that capitalism has been the greatest engine for alleviating suffering in human history.

don't know how true that is but it may be because this is arguably false
By my observation the greatest force for alleviating human suffering has been Protest and revolutions and sometimes violent revolutions
From the slave revolts of the antebellum south to the civil war to the great labor riots of the gilded age to the civil rights movement, history is replete with examples of how capitalism would benefit the few until the poor and disenfranchised "demanded" their share.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Any source or evidence for these three claims you make here? They sound exaggerated and generalized as f*ck


too much strawmanning and ad hominems to respond


don't know how true that is but it may be because this is arguably false
By my observation the greatest force for alleviating human suffering has been Protest and revolutions and sometimes violent revolutions
From the slave revolts of the antebellum south to the civil war to the great labor riots of the gilded age to the civil rights movement, history is replete with examples of how capitalism would benefit the few until the poor and disenfranchised "demanded" their share.

You're again, not being genuine here. None of this directly addresses the flaws of capitalism.

Slavery was a social and moral vice, capitalism withstanding. You can't reach hard enough to make connections here.

the labor riots? Still supportive of capitalism as an economic model but grant more rights to workers. ALL GOOD.

I would not for one second abolish the gains made by labor....HOWEVER, for you to insinuate that capitalism is itself at fault for labor being...labor, is flawed.

Things can't get done without people controlling the work of others. It just won't happen. The structure and direction of the individual to branch off is rewarded and those who choose the safety and consistency of being labor.

 

[Broke Wave]

Im probably on the far right of the left wing scale after reading this thread but... I think the idea that markets can be any "freer" is laughable. In what way can markets be freer? What specific restrictions are holding back markets from providing a preferable living arrangement for Americans as a whole? In specific, I'd like to hear of a regulation that is stopping the greater good from unfolding in society.

Specifics @DEAD7 @AJaRuleStan

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Dude is a lil bit of an a$$hole but...I mean...damn

Not even going to waste 15 minutes of my time on this video. Dude is ignorant as hell when it comes to these issues - he knows how to make money in the system, but he doesn't know shyt about the system. Listening to him talk about how to manage the economy is like listening to Jordan talk about how to run a basketball franchise.

I remember when he was trying to make noise during the whole Obamacare debate and listed his marvelous "10 point plan" for fixing insurance. Plan was ignorant as fukk - just a bunch of conservative talking points strung together, most of which had nothing to do with the actual problem. He's one of those guys who repeats shyt that he thinks "sounds smart" without knowing anything about the systems that he's commenting on.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Im probably on the far right of the left wing scale after reading this thread but... I think the idea that markets can be any "freer" is laughable. In what way can markets be freer? What specific restrictions are holding back markets from providing a preferable living arrangement for Americans as a whole? In specific, I'd like to hear of a regulation that is stopping the greater good from unfolding in society.

Specifics @DEAD7 @AJaRuleStan

To me, it seems this minimum wage issue is a big concern facing companies and it needs a lot more attention. I truly believe its going to hurt a lot of people and they don't even know it.

Not all industries can support $15/hour and frankly I don't know if forcing everyone to do it is a good idea.

People can say "well fukk their profits" but those profits allow Whole Foods to experiment with these new 365 Everyday low-cost stores they're about to open in 2016 and to already cover those things we've already mentioned that businesses have to account for.

Finance isn't as easy and transparent as some people are making it...and this is grocery stores...not the oil business. Tomorrow Whole Foods could very well go out of business.

 

[Broke Wave]

To me, it seems this minimum wage issue is a big concern facing companies and it needs a lot more attention. I truly believe its going to hurt a lot of people and they don't even know it.

Not all industries can support $15/hour and frankly I don't know if forcing everyone to do it is a good idea.

People can say "well fukk their profits" but those profits allow Whole Foods to experiment with these new 365 Everyday low-cost stores they're about to open in 2016 and to already cover those things we've already mentioned that businesses have to account for.

Finance isn't as easy and transparent as some people are making it...and this is grocery stores...not the oil business. Tomorrow Whole Foods could very well go out of business.

Okay, before I give you my take on the minimum wage issue, let me ask this

What do you think should be done, and if you think minimum wage should be kept at 7.25, why should that be the minimum wage?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Okay, before I give you my take on the minimum wage issue, let me ask this

What do you think should be done, and if you think minimum wage should be kept at 7.25, why should that be the minimum wage?

I support a $10 minimum wage, but we can't keep raising the minimum wage because:

1. Its not something that was pegged to any formula and thus is not inherently supposed to be raised regularly
2. Should not be viewed as a living wage
3. Does not address matters of inflation or changes in cost of living
4. Estimates state that only 2% of workers in the USA make minimum wage but some industries vary with specifics such as hospitality have 15% of employees making minimum wage.
5. Federal minimum wage hikes hurt states since most states add on to that MW and we're going to be talking about real increases of $15-$20 in many jurisdictions further hurting small businesses and companies looking to get by. Not everyone is walmart.

 

[Tate]

Nationalism is not bad in my eyes...also considering that this is the present state of the world. Your idealism isn't helping to address present paradigms.

That doesn't matter.

The panthers are not the extent of the black civil rights movement.
And yet economic parity is NOT the same as social parity.

Many may desire it, but to say they're the same is ridiculous.

Stop doing it.
Growth isn't dead. It's never died.


This sentence literally means nothing.

Do you know what you just said?

Your dogmatism is really disturbing fam.

You can't be a grown man

Nationalism is bad. I really don't see how it's arguable.

It doesn't really. Just learn the jargon if you're gonna come talk the issues.

You're right, the panthers had no role in what is generally considered the civil rights movement. However, socialists and communists did. A Phillip Randolph, bayard Rustin, James farmer, Malcolm, Martin, etc etc

In a market society, your value is determined by your cheque book

Never said that Growth was dead. Said it soon will be.

Pretty sure that sentence is a call for direct democracy in the work force.

Not very dogmatic tbh. I would support social democracy if I thought it was sustainable. Capital is too powerful though.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Nationalism is bad. I really don't see how it's arguable.

Except you have a passport....

It doesn't really. Just learn the jargon if you're gonna come talk the issues.

And the price of tea doesn't affect my views on abortion

See how this works? Stop bringing up unrelated bullshyt

You're right, the panthers had no role in what is generally considered the civil rights movement. However, socialists and communists did. A Phillip Randolph, bayard Rustin, James farmer, Malcolm, Martin, etc etc

get the terms right

In a market society, your value is determined by your cheque book

KInda. RElationships also matter, but theres no other way to determine value outside of hard objective universally agreed upon measures.

What do you prefer? HP? Emotion points?

Never said that Growth was dead. Said it soon will be.

More commie fearmongering

Pretty sure that sentence is a call for direct democracy in the work force.

Another equally vapid phrase devoid of any substance.

Democracy in the work force....

Who writes this shyt?

Not very dogmatic tbh. I would support social democracy if I thought it was sustainable. Capital is too powerful though.

 

[CHL]

"Nationalism is bad. I really don't see how it's arguable."

"Except you have a passport..."

What kind of nonsense fukking deflection is this?