Whole Foods' Co-Founder John Mackey: "Why Intellectuals Hate Capitalism"

[CHL]

Are you still trotting out this fake conspiracy though? I'm serious. NONE of that was true. I just let it fester cause theres nothing I can say when dudes are quoting new reddit accounts made specifically to troll

What?!

 

[CHL]

"Humans are naturally selfish" - capitalism tries to hammer this idea home at every turn so people internalize it and believe it as a justification for capitalism... and despite this gargantuan effort, there are still countless people who fight for and favor solidarity and cooperation every single day.

You could say heterosexual men are naturally almost always horny but does that justify rape? (I'm sure we have some far right-wingers on here who believe it does )

There is no single, fixed "human nature," especially not one independent of material and social circumstances

 

[Camile.Bidan]

I absolutely hate the common refrain from the far right that "crony capitalism isn't capitalism."

It's just a dishonest statement. All capitalistic societies become crony capitalistic invariably. Capital interests seek to dominate and shape any state and its policies. Free markets are mythical. Capitalism is based on self advancement. It is the entire philosophy. To argue that it's ever possible to convince the people who been conditioned that theirs is the end all be all to not try to shape a market in their favor is fukking retarded.

Wages are determined through productivity, which is why american(a very market based society) wages have been stagnant for 40 years despite unprecedented gains in productivity. I'm sure somehow that is the fault of not real capitalism.

If the business lobby wouldn't make universal healthcare an impossible subject to discuss seriously they wouldn't have to pay their employees' health insurance.

Believe people who are wired to be selfish will stop being selfish once they hit a certain point of success brehs

the freer the market, the lesser incentive business have to manipulate and manage regulations to their favor.

Crony capitalism, in other words, mercantilism, is not capitalism.

Taxis Cab companies have a huge incentive regulated Uber out-of-business.

As a CPA, I benefit greatly from the overly complex SEC, audit and accounting standards. Recently issued PCAOB standards have allowed audit firms to raise fees to unprecedented levels. These new rules limit technological growth in corporate finance and almost guarantee that industry-staff accountants will be performing archaic menial tasks far into the future. The accountant will never be replaced by the computer simply because of regulation.


Nestle and Enfamil take in huge amounts of revenue thanks to the American WIC program. WIC determines the market price for formula. The aforementioned companies have every incentive to ensure that WIC continues and that the WIC voucher price remained high.


We simply don't see this type of behavior in lessor regulated markets like TVs, Video Games, electronics, clothing and retail.

 

[CHL]

Napoleon and his.....religious like fervour for capitalism getting destroyed in here

 

[JahFocus CS]

Worker control doesn't mean no administration in the workplace

It means removing dictatorship from the economic realm and bringing democracy to the workplace. Workers can elect administrators for terms and rotate in and out (and basic things like instant recall, etc. should be provided for).

 

[JahFocus CS]

I mean, we have people in here saying socialism and Black Power had nothing to do with each other

The Panthers weren't socialists?
Malcolm wasn't a socialist?
Amiri Baraka wasn't a socialist?
Robert F. Williams didn't work closely with socialists and support the building of working-class power?


This is the problem. The problem is that people don't make an effort to learn real history; they take what they read in a school textbook at face value and read all they can of that bullshyt and think that they're "educated" and "intellectual."

No real critical thinking skills. No questioning of anything. Just acceptance of what they're told and of the current state of things.

It's like trying to discuss algebra with someone who barely knows to count to ten and struggles with the basic operations

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Your point was that we needed nationalism because we need nation states, we don't. My point being that nation states aren't a desirable thing. Nationalism is bad, so are nation states.

Nationalism is not bad in my eyes...also considering that this is the present state of the world. Your idealism isn't helping to address present paradigms.

How can I backtrack on the meaning of a term that's hundreds of years old? I did not invent that. I don't think some things can be owned. We disagree. I'm not playing fast and loose with terms when the exact term I used has had the meaning I've explained for a very long time.

That doesn't matter.

The Panthers called themselves Marxists for any number of reasons, it's contradictorary to be a Marxist and a nationalist. That's actually a point in your favor if you argue they weren't Marxists.

The panthers are not the extent of the black civil rights movement.

Not really weaseling that in there. That's been the belief of virtually every black leader since emancipation though. Even conservative black leaders thought racism would vanish with enough black prosperity

And yet economic parity is NOT the same as social parity.

Many may desire it, but to say they're the same is ridiculous.

Stop doing it.

No, no it wouldn't.

Evidence?

Capitalism is great for growth. Communism comes when the need for growth is dead.

Growth isn't dead. It's never died.

Again, I don't have a problem with how the workers decide to divy up their profits. If they think a certain guy is worth more they should give him more. I don't think that a guy on an assembly line owns all of the car, I think he and the men beside him own it collectively and can do with it what they will.

This sentence literally means nothing.

Do you know what you just said?

I didn't actually quote Das Kapital. I stated yours was a common misinterpretation. I did quote Martin Luther King tho.

Your dogmatism is really disturbing fam.

You can't be a grown man

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Worker control doesn't mean no administration in the workplace

It means removing dictatorship from the economic realm and bringing democracy to the workplace. Workers can elect administrators for terms and rotate in and out (and basic things like instant recall, etc. should be provided for).

What the fukk?

You can't even help yourself from speaking in exaggeration

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I mean, we have people in here saying socialism and Black Power had nothing to do with each other

Because you seem to think the black pantheres were the extent of the black power movement

The Panthers weren't socialists?

which wasn't the extent of the black civil rights movement

Malcolm wasn't a socialist?

which wasn't the extent of the black civil rights movement

Amiri Baraka wasn't a socialist?

which wasn't the extent of the black civil rights movement

Robert F. Williams didn't work closely with socialists and support the building of working-class power?

which wasn't the extent of the black civil rights movement

This is the problem. The problem is that people don't make an effort to learn real history; they take what they read in a school textbook at face value and read all they can of that bullshyt and think that they're "educated" and "intellectual."

The problem is poor people thinking socialism is the right way because of the correlation of poverty with communist thinking. Its precisely why The Marshal Plan was executed post WWII and saved all of Western Europe from succumbing to the low hanging fruit of communism and avoiding the naivety of a theoretical paradise.

No real critical thinking skills. No questioning of anything. Just acceptance of what they're told and of the current state of things.

For SOME reason you all think people deserve everything equal

I don't, and your emotional appeals won't change that.

Capitalism has afforded you everything you take advantage of yet the angsty rantings of a man who didn't even account for the externalities of the modern society of which even he benefited from weren't addressed.

Stop it already.

It's like trying to discuss algebra with someone who barely knows to count to ten and struggles with the basic operations

I need you to read up on how countries who turned away from communism turned out.

A lot of blood was spilled, but all of those nations are WAY better off.

You can't avoid the trap of central planning and unified economics that aren't adaptable or reward risk taking and creativity.

All of this "we hate bosses" trash talk is akin to a bunch of clowns with peter pan syndrome.

 

[JahFocus CS]

What the fukk?

You can't even help yourself from speaking in exaggeration

It's clear that you're not a worker... I do not see how it is deniable that capitalist enterprises are dictatorships. There is no substantive democracy in the workplace under capitalism

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

It's clear that you're not a worker... I do not see how it is deniable that capitalist enterprises are dictatorships. There is no substantive democracy in the workplace under capitalism

Yes. Your boss is literally Hitler/Hirohito/Mussolini/Pol Pot/Mao/Stalin/Papa Doc/etc

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I can't even have a reasonable conversation with dudes equating their bosses with Hitler and shyt

"Why can't the cashier be the CEO at the same time? "

These nikkas are delusional

 

[JahFocus CS]

Because you seem to think the black pantheres were the extent of the black power movement
which wasn't the extent of the black civil rights movement
which wasn't the extent of the black civil rights movement
which wasn't the extent of the black civil rights movement

So now its the "Black Civil Rights Movement" and not the "Black Power Movement?" The two are not interchangeable. I was talking about the Black Power Movement and now you're trying to muddy things up.

The problem is poor people thinking socialism is the right way because of the correlation of poverty with communist thinking. Its precisely why The Marshal Plan was executed post WWII and saved all of Western Europe from succumbing to the low hanging fruit of communism and avoiding the naivety of a theoretical paradise.

Yeah, provide the support to shore up the bosses to suppress the working class fight for freedom, and prevent the powerful example of what a fighting working class can accomplish.

For SOME reason you all think people deserve everything equal

I don't, and your emotional appeals won't change that.

That's fine. I don't give a fukk about convincing you

---------------------------

Capitalism is a more productive system than feudalism, or slavery of the type practiced in the Roman Empire and elsewhere, or hunter-gatherer society. Marx noted this anyway. Capitalism is also more progressive in many ways than feudalism. That also is not in dispute. But capitalism is not itself synonymous with the expansion of the productive forces. It is labor that advances the productive forces

 

[JahFocus CS]

Yes. Your boss is literally Hitler/Hirohito/Mussolini/Pol Pot/Mao/Stalin/Papa Doc/etc

Talk about a strawman

I'm using the actual definition of dictatorship, not the bubblegum, exaggerated nonsense you're orally defecating

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

So now its the "Black Civil Rights Movement" and not the "Black Power Movement?" The two are not interchangeable. I was talking about the Black Power Movement and not you're trying to muddy things up.

Agreed. I'm talking about the civil rights movement.

Yeah, provide the support to shore up the bosses to suppress the working class fight for freedom, and prevent the powerful example of what a fighting working class can accomplish.

what does this even mean? I'm serious. It just sounds like aimless ranting.

I support fair pay and certain benefits...but what are you talking about here? As if every employee deserves to be king of the hill...how does this remotely make sense to you?

Its like angst ridden outbursts you're channelling.

That's fine. I don't give a fukk about convincing you

You don't have to, but I'm seriously perplexed that any rational person who cares about his own success and that of others around him would hold your views without trying address every problem without resorting to straw men and ridiculous hyperbole.

Fam, you equated all forms of management to DICTATORS.

Whats' wrong with you?

---------------------------

Capitalism is a more productive system than feudalism, or slavery of the type practiced in the Roman Empire and elsewhere, or hunter-gatherer society. Marx noted this anyway.

I don't give a fukk about Marx.

I'm talking about what you think today and whats relevant today.

Equating working in the modern western world as SLAVERY is insulting and frankly borderline immoral.

Capitalism is also more progressive in many ways than feudalism. That also is not in dispute. But capitalism is not itself synonymous with the expansion of the productive forces. It is labor that advances the productive forces

Labor is the means to the ends. Labor does the jobs that replaces previous jobs.

This statement of yours LITERALLY makes no sense.