Who killed WCW produced by The Rock

[drifter]

They cleared up some loooong standing stuff bringing in that guy that worked for WCW before but was working for WWF at the time of the sale. He had been in contact with Siegel throughout the whole time the wheels were falling off, the internet always made it seem like the deal was put together out of thin air at the last minute

"The Boys" aren't that much different from internet marks in that every time wrestling fans start talking about stuff outside the wrestling bubble a good chunk fall on their face every single time. They thought/still think WCW was worth espionage charges and jail time, especially 2001 WCW lol

Bischoff & everybody can admit they were looking to get out of the business but are surprised they sold it for "cheap". Sounds like the boys didn't have a clue how bad Turner wanted them gone. Besides that, I just looked up a old Meltzer article, when Bischoff's group/Turner agreed to a deal, Turner said WCW was worth 10-15 million. They talked here like WWF should've paid hundreds of millions bc that's what WCW used to generate

They also didn't bring up all the racism, discrimination, & misc lawsuits Turner was settling bc of WCW on top of WCW losing viewers, gate, merch, & PPV sales. WCW was like a 360 deal for a rapper at that point for Turner lol

Also didn't mention what Fusient's offer was, it's always been WWF's low offer. Sounds to me like Bischoff's deal wasn't shyt, they wanted it off the network completely, Bischoff thought it'd stay, nobody else wanted it, Vince got it

 

[drifter]

And for all the talk about Russo, Kevin Nash came off the worse out of anybody here. Multiple episodes telling you "a lot of mistakes were made, my checks never stopped", "the send off show was pathetic because people went", "I sat home and watched the ship sink"

And that's exactly why the ship sank lmao this is the same guy that was booking the whole POS just 2-3 years before lol

Blamed Vince for Scott relapsing after they joined WWE. I'm sure telling him his career was over didn't play any part at all

Eric & everybody reflecting on what could've been done different. "I was over as fukk and nobody can tell me different" never gave anything that could've been different, half way looked like he wanted to be there. But there was a check so he was there, just barely. Just like he did WCW

 

[HipHopStan]

I always found the final WCW Nitro to be very unfulfilled. Many of the key talents who were central figures in the company seemed to be missing in action and didn’t get the chance or didn’t want to say goodbye to the audience who had followed them for a long time.

Goldberg - His career ended in a storyline involving Totally Buff, and he was recovering from shoulder surgery; he could have at least bid farewell but story wise, he was never seen or heard from again in WCW.

Hoegan - He was fired on air by Russo and was in litigation with the company at the time of its purchase by the WWF.

Nash - His career was ended in a storyline by Scott Steiner; idk why he couldn't have made an appearance on the last Nitro unless he just wanted to stay at home and chill. That seems on brand for Big Kev.

Hall - He was released in 2000, having become a headache for the company, which is why he wasn’t on the final show.

DDP - He filmed a farewell segment but did not appear in person.

Lex Luger - He asked not to be on the last Nitro (along with Buff Bagwell), but I believe he did appear on a TV screen on RAW that Vince was watching, and Vince cheerfully declared that the Lex Express days were over.

Jeff Jarrett - While not featured on the final Nitro, he did make an appearance on a TV screen on RAW where Vince once again cheerfully exclaimed that Double J was double G, double O, double N, and double E (GGOONNEE).

Macho Man - Despite not being seen for close to a year, his Slim Jim commercials continued to air during Nitro. Given the reported bad blood between him and Vince over something (coughs Stephanie coughs), it makes sense why he wasn't included in the final show.

Mean Gene Okerlund - Although he was known for conducting interviews, he was also absent from the last Nitro. I’m not really sure what Gene was doing in those last three to four months of WCW as I don’t recall seeing him much whenever I watched the show. He appeared at WM17 the following Sunday, with Bobby Heenan, during the Gimmick Battle Royal.

I read somewhere that Rick Steiner no showed the final Nitro because he was afraid of getting a receipt from Konnan (who was also absent from the final show) and a few other wrestlers that he had been rough with over the years. This fear arose from the fact that he stiffed K-Dawg on the second-to-last Nitro the previous Monday.

There was no 'Thank you for watching WCW Monday Nitro on TNT' from Tony Schiavone or anyone; the show simply switched over to RAW and ended. Although Tony has mentioned that he didn't care about not getting to say goodbye, he was just relieved that it was over.

Fortunately, Sting, Flair, Booker T, Scott Steiner, and Rey Jr. were able to have matches on the final WCW Nitro before the sunset for good.

 

[Coco Brown]

As someone who stopped watching any kinda wrestling 15-20 years ago, and only jumped back in to watching a little WWE 3 months ago, I'm enjoying this doc.

I'm sure these are all conversations you guys have been having for years, and I'm going through the thread picking up pieces of information, but this is literally the first wrestling documentary I've watched.

I only started because of a clip I saw on Twitter of Goldberg doing Bret dirty with a kick and I thought "what the hell, let me reminisce" since it was such a big part of my childhood and I wanted to see all those guys again.

Does anybody have any recommendations for podcasts (closed ended ones that tell a story of an era and stop, not ongoing podcasts) that talk about either the Attitude Era, or even this WCW era? Preferably done by outsiders or "journalists" and not done by people involved or too close. I want a more "historical" look back and nothing too one-sided.

I know this isn't what you asked for, but if you really want to take a fun, informative trip down memory lane I highly recommend the "Reliving The War" series on Youtube by Wrestling Bios. It goes through the entire Monday Night War recapping and reviewiing every episode of RAW and Nitro, along w/the PPV's that ran during that time. It's super informative and you can see how audiences reacted to angles and exactly how everything played out w/no bias and no bs.

 

[DaHNIC82]

Man if somebody don’t get Eric ass off this site

Nah that's Ed Leslie

 

[firemanBk]

They cleared up some loooong standing stuff bringing in that guy that worked for WCW before but was working for WWF at the time of the sale. He had been in contact with Siegel throughout the whole time the wheels were falling off, the internet always made it seem like the deal was put together out of thin air at the last minute

"The Boys" aren't that much different from internet marks in that every time wrestling fans start talking about stuff outside the wrestling bubble a good chunk fall on their face every single time. They thought/still think WCW was worth espionage charges and jail time, especially 2001 WCW lol

Bischoff & everybody can admit they were looking to get out of the business but are surprised they sold it for "cheap". Sounds like the boys didn't have a clue how bad Turner wanted them gone. Besides that, I just looked up a old Meltzer article, when Bischoff's group/Turner agreed to a deal, Turner said WCW was worth 10-15 million. They talked here like WWF should've paid hundreds of millions bc that's what WCW used to generate

They also didn't bring up all the racism, discrimination, & misc lawsuits Turner was settling bc of WCW on top of WCW losing viewers, gate, merch, & PPV sales. WCW was like a 360 deal for a rapper at that point for Turner lol

Also didn't mention what Fusient's offer was, it's always been WWF's low offer. Sounds to me like Bischoff's deal wasn't shyt, they wanted it off the network completely, Bischoff thought it'd stay, nobody else wanted it, Vince got it

Well, once Turner decided they were gonna cancel their broadcasts, the value of WCW dropped dramatically
Need to remember, the talent was not part of the sale since they had contracts with AOL/Time Warner, not WCW.
So what the hell was being paid for? A name and the library (which did not have as much value at the time as it would a few years later once DVDs became more prevalent and even later with the launch of the network)
The name wasn't worth much without the TV especially since you weren't getting the talent

 

[drifter]

Well, once Turner decided they were gonna cancel their broadcasts, the value of WCW dropped dramatically
Need to remember, the talent was not part of the sale since they had contracts with AOL/Time Warner, not WCW.
So what the hell was being paid for? A name and the library (which did not have as much value at the time as it would a few years later once DVDs became more prevalent and even later with the launch of the network)
The name wasn't worth much without the TV especially since you weren't getting the talent

I know that and it's all true but even with the talent the thing was in the toilet lol

The damage had already been done. The fans were tired of NWO shyt & all the old guys and like they said when Vince bought it guys like Sting, Lex, etc didn't want to work for him. So it's like still the same issue regardless if it's Vince or anybody else...what exactly are you getting buy the thing

Goldberg said he was thinking they'd run both brands. I believe that was Vince's plan until he saw the buyouts for Hogan, Flair etc. The company wasn't even worth the contracts the top guys had. The boys knew it & Bischoff knew it which is why their contracts were on the Turner side and everyone else was under the company they actually work for

 

[ayatollah]

 

[CM_Burns]

Well, once Turner decided they were gonna cancel their broadcasts, the value of WCW dropped dramatically
Need to remember, the talent was not part of the sale since they had contracts with AOL/Time Warner, not WCW.
So what the hell was being paid for? A name and the library (which did not have as much value at the time as it would a few years later once DVDs became more prevalent and even later with the launch of the network)
The name wasn't worth much without the TV especially since you weren't getting the talent

And that's why the conspiracy sh1t is questionable. At the time, was anyone else really gonna pay more than 4 mil for WCWs logo and tape library? Vince had a lot of negotiating power there.

It's possible that Siegel pushed for Kellner to drop it entirely to sell it to his boy I guess, but Kellner would probably have approved it regardless given his background and public statements.

 

[Big Jo]

And that's why the conspiracy sh1t is questionable. At the time, was anyone else really gonna pay more than 4 mil for WCWs logo and tape library? Vince had a lot of negotiating power there.

It's possible that Siegel pushed for Kellner to drop it entirely to sell it to his boy I guess, but Kellner would probably have approved it regardless given his background and public statements.

I tend to agree. It was a dead brand. The last 2 episodes of this docuseries is dedicated to how sh1tty WCW was in its dying days, then we are supposed to believe a media company would pay $60million for it?

ECW was you could say a hotter more desirable property in many ways and went completely bankrupt. I get that Siegel was happy to unload it to one of his cronies, but that doesnt mean there was foul play. Business is built on leverage, relationships etc. It was a huge risk for anybody to acquire, makes sense the WWF would swoop in and buy it via fire sale.

 

[threattonature]

And for all the talk about Russo, Kevin Nash came off the worse out of anybody here. Multiple episodes telling you "a lot of mistakes were made, my checks never stopped", "the send off show was pathetic because people went", "I sat home and watched the ship sink"

And that's exactly why the ship sank lmao this is the same guy that was booking the whole POS just 2-3 years before lol

Blamed Vince for Scott relapsing after they joined WWE. I'm sure telling him his career was over didn't play any part at all

Eric & everybody reflecting on what could've been done different. "I was over as fukk and nobody can tell me different" never gave anything that could've been different, half way looked like he wanted to be there. But there was a check so he was there, just barely. Just like he did WCW

That was straight up clown shyt. Not everybody had the same multi-year multimillion guaranteed contract. This are people trying to keep the new bosses happy and doing everything they could to make sure they still had a job going forward if WCW was continued. Nash's pompous ass talking from a place of privilege is ridiculous. And like you said a big part of why WCW tanked is that so many of the big money wrestlers refusing to show up or do business when asked to do jobs was a huge factor in WCW losing popularity. Can't exactly build up new talent if the big money talent isn't willing to work with the newer guys to make them look good.

Also funny seeing Nash saying he's never seen a bunch of higher ups involved in decision making refusing to take blame, while also completely refusing to take blame himself like he didn't have a lot of power and wasn't right next to a decision maker.

 

[threattonature]

I know that and it's all true but even with the talent the thing was in the toilet lol

The damage had already been done. The fans were tired of NWO shyt & all the old guys and like they said when Vince bought it guys like Sting, Lex, etc didn't want to work for him. So it's like still the same issue regardless if it's Vince or anybody else...what exactly are you getting buy the thing

Goldberg said he was thinking they'd run both brands. I believe that was Vince's plan until he saw the buyouts for Hogan, Flair etc. The company wasn't even worth the contracts the top guys had. The boys knew it & Bischoff knew it which is why their contracts were on the Turner side and everyone else was under the company they actually work for

The reported story is Vince was going to turn Raw into the WCW show but TNN didn't want that. Then it was a possibility of turning Smackdown into a WCW show but UPN didn't want that. Then they floated a Saturday show as a WCW show but that was also rejected at which point they decided to just do the invasion angle instead of running WCW as a separate company.

 

[threattonature]

I tend to agree. It was a dead brand. The last 2 episodes of this docuseries is dedicated to how sh1tty WCW was in its dying days, then we are supposed to believe a media company would pay $60million for it?

ECW was you could say a hotter more desirable property in many ways and went completely bankrupt. I get that Siegel was happy to unload it to one of his cronies, but that doesnt mean there was foul play. Business is built on leverage, relationships etc. It was a huge risk for anybody to acquire, makes sense the WWF would swoop in and buy it via fire sale.

It makes sense for fusient to offer the 60+ million for it due to having that guaranteed time slot on TBS and TNT. The reason ECW crumbled is because they signed a bad TV deal and then once WWF moved over to TNN they couldn't land another TV deal. With WCW they already had the TV deal and the TV slots. And not having all of those big talent contracts signed directly to WCW was another bonus. Now with someone else buying WCW they were essentially able to start fresh and build back up with their pick of the litter of which contracts they'd want to buy off Time Warner. Much easier to buy an established brand and try to build it back up than to try to integrate a brand new wrestling company from scratch that has no brand awareness.

 

[The Rainmaker]

This was the best episode, due to the unseen footage from the last Nitro. Very emotional.

Hearing Saint DDP saying "fukk you Jamie Kellner" is shocking and hilarious at the same time. Even more after Kellner just passed away.

At the end, everyone had a different opinion about who killed WCW, but it's true, it was a combination of factors.

The fact that they sold it for pennies is a little suspicious, but at the end of the day, the company didn't want wrestling anymore, so they just got rid of it.
Still, going from 67 million to just 4 is crazy.

Hope Rock tackles another VERY ORIGINAL concept in any future project, like ECW or Benoit

 

[OGBobbyJohnson]

I know this isn't what you asked for, but if you really want to take a fun, informative trip down memory lane I highly recommend the "Reliving The War" series on Youtube by Wrestling Bios. It goes through the entire Monday Night War recapping and reviewiing every episode of RAW and Nitro, along w/the PPV's that ran during that time. It's super informative and you can see how audiences reacted to angles and exactly how everything played out w/no bias and no bs.

this is my shyt..i just got up to Fall Brawl 97