Who is a bigger mark for themselves and their own perceived greatness?

[Hoss]

The thread's getting a little off topic. That's my TSC!

I just want to add that I don't really buy the argument that Triple H is such a huge mark. To me, a mark is a dude who thinks highly of himself to the point of being a little delusional, and actually catches feelings when anyone says anything that might be perceived as something less than high praise.

As far as I know, Triple H has never claimed to be the all-time best. I don't even remember him getting defensive about where he ranks among the top guys.

To me, he's just a dude who kept finding ways to manipulate himself into good positions so he could make money. But that happens every day in every office in America. People network, people kiss ass, people do what they have to do to get ahead. It worked for him. It may have been slimy or underhanded, and maybe there were others who were more talented who got held down, but that makes Triple H more of a politician than a "mark".

You don't have to like his methods or even respect him, but he doesn't fit the classic definition of a mark.

Bret Hart apparently believed his home country would go into a state of mourning if he lost a scripted pro wrestling match on home soil. I live in Canada, I am well aware that at his peak the dude had a HUGE following here. And yeah, Canadians loved to see him win big matches, and didn't like seeing him lose.

But for him to actually believe that we'd truly be outraged over him losing in Montreal? It's hard to imagine a bigger "mark for himself" mindset than that.

There's also the story about the time Bret stormed out of his own father's HOF induction ceremony, where Bret himself did the induction speech, because he spotted a wrestling journalist he didn't like sitting in the crowd. The reason he didn't like him? The journalist had written a book where he ranked Hitman #14 all-time among Canadian wrestlers. Obviously you could argue that's a terrible ranking, but to actually storm out of the room because that journalist was there? It's just an opinion, Bret. Relax, breh.

Ring Posts: Bret Hart embarrassed himself with rant - WWE Raw, Smackdown and TNA pro wrestling news, analysis from Kevin Eck - baltimoresun.com

I say all this as a big fan of the Hitman as a performer. One of the best ever, but he takes it ALL way too seriously.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Bret is ridiculous to the point of being a weirdo. The 4/10 meme is comedy btw

 

[Sierra Mist]

I was disappointed that HHH wasn't an option but I was pleased to see that everyone thinks it's him anyway,

 

[Henzo]

I voted Bret but Flair is right up there. Same with Matt Hardy and Helms. Something about NC

 

[Toe Jay Simpson]

Trips knows where he stands in the grand scheme of things, he just politicked his way through for his own personal benefit but dude always knew and understood he was never gonna be at the top of any pecking order. He heard every pop that was louder than his; he just made sure to go over that guy so he could sleep better at night

Hogan is one of those old school dudes that gets lost in kayfabe sometimes and just doesnt get how far ahead the average wrestling fan is compared to his big days in the 80s

Punk is working on it...but Bret takes the cake. Some people are good liars, but Bret is different. Bret can take a situation and literally wire his brain to see it in a completely different way than it actually is so when he's talking about it he swears it's the truth because to him it really is. I don't know how to actually put into words what he does that so different than everyone elses but if Bret gets a ticket for doing 65 he really was doing 65, but in his mind when he looked down at the speedometer he really only saw 30.

 

[The G.O.D II]

I really don't view Punk as a mark. Just an internet smark who doesn't know that hes a wrestler and in the inside circle. Sure he brags about himself but he has a right. And the difference between him and Hart is Bret actually buries other while putting over his accomplishments.

 

[The G.O.D II]

Not only that, but even after the whole "Lost My Smile" exaggerated knee injury thing happened, Bret was STILL willing to do the job. As a matter of fact, he told Shawn to his face that he would do so. And Shawn replied by saying that he wouldn't do the same. Basically spitting in his face. No chance that I would job to somebody that did that to me.

Another thing people don't understand: Bret still had a month on his deal. He could've dropped it to anyone else, then had that person transition the belt onto Shawn. The screwjob was completely unnecessary and caused by Shawn's inability to be a professional in front of a professional.

With that said, as a Bret defender, he is a GIGANTIC mark for himself. But not in a malicious way, and not to the detriment of others, like Hunter tends to be.



Or this a$$hole Kevin Nash.

Read this: Wrestling star Kevin Nash is making headway in Hollywood, but something still keeps him up at night - Grantland

Specifically footnote 13 and the paragraph immediately preceding it.



In Nash's mind, ECW, Superstar Steve Austin, and The Sandman didn't exist, apparently. Nash seems like a cool guy away from wrestling, but he's way up his own ass at times.

Lets not act like Hart was an alter boy in all of these. Sure HBK was an absolute dikk(my selfish pill poppin gawd ) with his no jobbing in America(even though he did eventually come around to putting bret over), but Bret was not a saint. Bret, being such a mark for himself that he refused to job in Canada despite different scenarios, forced Mcmahons hand. Sure he had a month left but as soon as word leaked, Bischoff would have ran on Nitro and gloated about signing the champion of another promotion. Mcmahon at the end of the day, is a business man, and that scenario would have crushed his business which was already in dire straits. The whole thing occurred because Hart is a ridiculous mark for himself and refused to do business.

 

[R=G]

Trips knows where he stands in the grand scheme of things, he just politicked his way through for his own personal benefit but dude always knew and understood he was never gonna be at the top of any pecking order. He heard every pop that was louder than his; he just made sure to go over that guy so he could sleep better at night

Hogan is one of those old school dudes that gets lost in kayfabe sometimes and just doesnt get how far ahead the average wrestling fan is compared to his big days in the 80s

Punk is working on it...but Bret takes the cake. Some people are good liars, but Bret is different. Bret can take a situation and literally wire his brain to see it in a completely different way than it actually is so when he's talking about it he swears it's the truth because to him it really is. I don't know how to actually put into words what he does that so different than everyone elses but if Bret gets a ticket for doing 65 he really was doing 65, but in his mind when he looked down at the speedometer he really only saw 30.

You can say that now but Cripple H before he put over Benoit and Batista at two straight WMs was definitely all about trying to make himself be bigger than everyone else in history. He rarely jobbed, didn't like to lose on television, buried people on the mic, and in shoot interviews, never gave anyone any sort of credit for how he got to his spot.


The thing with Bret Hart is that we've all seen the video by now..he and Vince agreed to a bullshyt finish and he would give the title up the next night. They didn't do that. They fukked him over and tried to humiliate him and went against the agreed finish. That was a lie. A scheme. A set up. And Bret did want to stay but Vince OUTRIGHT told him to leave the company and go to WCW.

 

[TheGreatShowtime]

Bret never goes out of his way to bury people. People ask him his opinion on others, and he gives it. If he doesn't like certain people, so what

 

[KingDanz]

http://images.*****.org/gif/src/1366251833098.gif

 

[CM_Burns]

At this point it's not HHH, and I don't think he believes in his own greatness to the level of some other guys. As has been pointed out, this is just another example of irrationally hating HHH with all your mind power.

It might be worth distinguishing between mark for oneself because they are so into their character or inseparable from it, or mark for oneself by thinking they were so great at wrestling.

Ultimate Warrior is about as big a mark for his character as has ever existed, same with Ric Flair, but that could be because their character was always them being themself. I'll go with Bret and then Ric Flair, because they fit both definitions to a T.

Punk is a mark for himself because he believes his rebel persona so much but he's really HHH if he was born into a family with less money and less instilling of hygienic norms, and with the unwillingness to take roids

 

[Nintendough]

Ultimate Warrior is about as big a mark for his character as has ever existed,

I was just about to ask if anybody mentioned Hellwig. The man named himself Warrior, literally. He stays in character 24/7, he is trapped in it. He is the king of self-marks.

 

[TrueEpic08]

Lets not act like Hart was an alter boy in all of these. Sure HBK was an absolute dikk(my selfish pill poppin gawd ) with his no jobbing in America(even though he did eventually come around to putting bret over), but Bret was not a saint. Bret, being such a mark for himself that he refused to job in Canada despite different scenarios, forced Mcmahons hand. Sure he had a month left but as soon as word leaked, Bischoff would have ran on Nitro and gloated about signing the champion of another promotion. Mcmahon at the end of the day, is a business man, and that scenario would have crushed his business which was already in dire straits. The whole thing occurred because Hart is a ridiculous mark for himself and refused to do business.

Why in the hell would he "do business" with a guy who told him to his face three times (check the reports on the screwjob) that he wouldn't job to him, had to be dragged to a negotiation table to change his tune, then did everything afterward to make the change of heart look as disingenuous as possible? I reiterate: there's no reason why Bret should've done business with someone that refused to do business with him.

Now, I'm not going to defend Bret's actual reasoning for not wanting to lose at Survivor Series (it's stupid. Punk's 2-15 or something in Chicago and he's still treated like a folk hero), but he did have a completely legitimate reason to refuse to job there. You should not reward a disingenuous a$$hole with a ballooned payday by giving him the belt, plain and simple.

I sincerely believe that, if Michaels hadn't went on his "not doing any jobs in the territory" rant, there would have been a great chance that this would've never happened. And even if Hart didn't lose the belt at Survivor Series, there were many things they could've done to get Michaels over without fukking over Bret. It was paranoia, Michael's stupidity, and a lack of creativity more than anything else that caused the screwjob.

 

[DopeMan]

You can say that now but Cripple H before he put over Benoit and Batista at two straight WMs was definitely all about trying to make himself be bigger than everyone else in history.

He rarely jobbed, didn't like to lose on television, buried people on the mic, and in shoot interviews, never gave anyone any sort of credit for how he got to his spot.

What shoot interviews has HHH done?

If your answer consists of anything that was a work (which Im pretty sure it is), then dont even bother responding. Wrestling might still be real to you, but not to me.

 

[ThatTruth777]

but on the real...

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