"Who are the Knicks? Brunson, Brunson and some other Knickas" " - Official '23 NYK Offseason Thread

[g-ice]

All this back and forth over Evan Fournier is crazy!

Ridiculous

Motherfukkers should be ashamed.

 

[seemorecizzy]

Ya'll cool with the mvp of the league not wanting to come here because of the coach

Yall not gonna see how big of a problem he is until its too late. We cant keep living off CAA tampering

 

[Wargames]

Ya'll cool with the mvp of the league not wanting to come here because of the coach

Yall not gonna see how big of a problem he is until its too late. We cant keep living off CAA tampering

CAA tampering and implied tampering is the only reason this team is doing well but that is another conversation.

 

[storyteller]

I always saw the Klutch thing as some CAA beef shyt more than anything. The only disgruntled player I felt that was in the right was Obi. Love D Rose, but he was washed. We all wanted Quickley to get every minute he could. And it still wasn’t enough. We all wanted Grimes to play. Fournier was kept around cause his contract is perfect to trade for a big contract. And it is at its most valuable now as an expiring than it’s ever been.

All the shyt you listed is excusable imo. They cut ties with all the people they were supposed to cut ties with. Nerlens is gone. Burks was dealt. Kemba was dealt. Rose was offered a chance to leave and he chose to stay. So idk why everyone is out here speaking for him when he hasn’t said shyt really.

Whether you feel it's excusable or not is one thing. Whether it impacts the way players around the league view the team as a destination is another. And anyway, my complaint wasn't that the moves didn't make sense. It's that they came late as hell. I said this front office is overly patient with assets which dries up their value. They hang on to these guys and wind up dumping them for nothing, or worse; they have to give up assets to get rid of 'em.

- Obi's value deteriorated the longer he was stuck behind Randle. So, if they had no plans to move Randle, they shoulda moved Obi sooner.

- They could have traded Rose last offseason or even at the deadline to try and get something back. Even a second rounder would be more than they wound up with.

- Quickley is extension eligible and Grimes is about to be, so they're about to be more expensive and less valuable as assets.

- Fournier's contract is only as valuable as what it returns. The last rumor was that they wanted to dump him for Cam Payne and a TPE.

- Instead of getting value back for Burks, they used his value to dump Nerlens Noel. That's because they extended Noel despite having Mitch. Burks was receiving inquiries at the trade deadline of that season which wound up in the tank. So they devalued both assets.

- Just to dump Kemba's expiring contract, they dealt the 13th pick in the draft. That pick was Jalen Duren.

From a "we're gonna lose this piece anyway, let's maximize its value" perspective, they've been awful. In the same respect in the, "let's not screw this up, like the same ole Knicks" side of things; it's going well. But that's why I say the next big move will end up defining their stint. They can't just wait for much longer.

 

[seemorecizzy]

You don't agree that there's a middle ground between giving him spot minutes and not playing him at all? Cool. Don't agree with me. Doesn't change that we still in the same spot.

He has no value besides his contract and we're hoping that a star shakes loose so we can use his salary as filler - if that doesn't happen, we have an asset with no value that we'll likely buy out. We went in to this off season with Rose, Fournier and Obi all as likely candidates to be gone and with the hope of packing them for an impact player. If Fournier gets bought out,all we got for those 3 were a couple of seconds. I have an issue with that's but maybe that's just me.

We're having a conversation about Fournier and everyone is getting trapped in this messenger and not the message shyt and losing the bigger picture to make corny ass jokes and showing how short sighted they really are.

Fournier represents a trend of players on this team that were obviously not part of the future that should have been moved or not brought in at all.

Fournier represents a trend of players speaking about Thibodeau's communication skills, which, as he is the head coach for the foreseeable future, could pose as an issue for us as a team as a team actively seeking to attract outside players as opposed to development from within.

Fournier represents a trend of a questionable use of assets by this front office, who seem to be singularly focused on bringing in and playing around with manageable contracts, not impact players, with the hopes of having flexibility to trade for other, better players, that have become disenchanted with their current teams. An approach that is cool in theory, but limits your ability to do anything substantial if no one actually shakes loose, or if the asking price is too high for your liking (see: Donovan Mitchell).

I don't give a fukk about Fournier. I don't give a fukk if he's happy or sad. I care about what he represents and if it will have a negative impact on the team. If he goes tomorrow, we get a decent return in value and nothing bad comes from it, great, I can shut the fukk up
But if they can't move him and they buy him out, he's another asset down the drain and one that presented the inner workings of the team poorly. People can debate the legitimacy of what he said, question if he's just in his feelings or being spiteful, but it's out there now. Just weeks after the Obi situation got out. And it doesn't look good for the team, which is all I give a fukk about.

Yall can argue that shyt differently though. The weird narratives and selective reading got this thread looking real FOX news. I'm good with all that.

all facts
why do you think rose was willing to stay and mentor (even though he was unhappy with not playing?) Because thibs told him da situation like a man, kept up to date on da situation, and made him feel apart of da team.


Thibs straight up ghosted fournier
Wouldn't even speak to that man.

He already has a rep around da league for running players to the ground and being stubborn. You couple that with not communicating and why exactly would big name players wanna play for him?

 

[seemorecizzy]

CAA tampering and implied tampering is the only reason this team is doing well but that is another conversation.

tampering is easy and requires no work
This further proves my point that these guys are settling for getting easy and convenient players, and not actually trying to maximize what's best for da team.

Other teams actually have to do real negoitations and bargain with other gms with a clean slate. When's da last time we did that?

 

[Daniel.]

Yea. I don’t agree. I don’t believe giving him minutes would raise his value. All he would have showed was that he’s a good shooter. Something everyone already knows. He also would have continued to show that he’s probably worse on defense now as his athleticism leaves him.

Ok.

And what trend?

Dude already mentioned them earlier. Rivers. Kemba. Cam. Obi. Now Fournier. But they're just bums with hurt egos mad that they're not playing, so it's nothing to worry about.

Show me the organization that bats a thousand. The fukking Warriors botched the second pick in the draft and traded him for pennies on the dollar. The Knicks organization has made mistakes. And they’ve made great decisions as well. So fukk me if I’m actually happy they recognized the mistake instead of doubling down on it at the cost of wins and development of actual pieces. The old regime did what y’all wanted all the time and nothing came of it. Ever.

I have no idea what any of this has to do with anything I've said.

Nobody is gonna have a shot at coming to the Knicks and go “idk man, that Evan Fournier guy that I’m WAY better than didn’t have a good time so I might reconsider…”

So I express concern about a trend of behavior toward players beyond Fournier that includes Fournier, you question "what trend" I'm referring to and we circle back, again, to making this all about Fournier to delegitimize a point I'm not making. Got you. Copy.

We should have been way more concerned about how we as a fan base treated our star player Julius Randle than some fukking Evan Fournier getting his minutes cut legitimately…. THAT shyt would make real players have pause for coming to the Knicks.

Ok.

 

[Daniel.]

Whether you feel it's excusable or not is one thing. Whether it impacts the way players around the league view the team as a destination is another. And anyway, my complaint wasn't that the moves didn't make sense. It's that they came late as hell. I said this front office is overly patient with assets which dries up their value. They hang on to these guys and wind up dumping them for nothing, or worse; they have to give up assets to get rid of 'em.

- Obi's value deteriorated the longer he was stuck behind Randle. So, if they had no plans to move Randle, they shoulda moved Obi sooner.

- They could have traded Rose last offseason or even at the deadline to try and get something back. Even a second rounder would be more than they wound up with.

- Quickley is extension eligible and Grimes is about to be, so they're about to be more expensive and less valuable as assets.

- Fournier's contract is only as valuable as what it returns. The last rumor was that they wanted to dump him for Cam Payne and a TPE.

- Instead of getting value back for Burks, they used his value to dump Nerlens Noel. That's because they extended Noel despite having Mitch. Burks was receiving inquiries at the trade deadline of that season which wound up in the tank. So they devalued both assets.

- Just to dump Kemba's expiring contract, they dealt the 13th pick in the draft. That pick was Jalen Duren.

From a "we're gonna lose this piece anyway, let's maximize its value" perspective, they've been awful. In the same respect in the, "let's not screw this up, like the same ole Knicks" side of things; it's going well. But that's why I say the next big move will end up defining their stint. They can't just wait for much longer.

Lots of ends justify the means takes that completely disregards how we got in the position we're in to begin with.

But as long as we're not as bad as we used to be I guess.

 

[ISO]

nikka don’t quote me with Thibs dikk in your mouth.

Thibs sucks because he can’t coach in the playoffs. He does have his favorites, and will devalue everyone else, playing stupid games. The FO basically had to forego chasing talent and instead are looking for high floor guys he will play.

You got the God damn MVP saying I prefer to not be coached by him. We’re focused on Anunoby who on the low is just another high floor player probably because he’s the Luol Deng of this era. He was voted by a wide margin as the coach players want to play for the least. The only thing he does best is raise players floors, yell at guys during games, and do snide shyt. He ain’t winning when it counts

This whole team is predicated on the fact if the Knicks make the playoffs Dolan can raise the ticket prices and Thibs will drag a corpse to the playoffs to satisfy his ego. We’re in the middle of the Thibs cycle, but the ending will be the same…. Treadmill.

1. There is no evidence he can’t coach in the playoffs he took this team as far as it could go and has done so with every other team he’s coached. This team is nowhere near championship caliber and he outcoached JB Bickerstaff. There is no evidence that Tom Thibodeau could not win a championship with a transcendent player on his team. Of course there is a narrative that Thibodeau can’t win simply because he’s been coaching so long and hasn’t that’s the nature of basketball discussion. So and so executive said is not a source it’s a fukking media propaganda tool and plenty of NBA executives are fukking idiots if these are even actual executives telling these journalists anything.

2. Every coach has their “favorites” it’s called a rotation. There are disgruntled vets and “devalued” players all over the association.

3. OG Anunoby is believed to be a player with untapped potential at a high need position for us. There aren’t many stars or transcendent players available so this is what the team is shooting for.

Stop being such a miserable typical Knicks fan unaware of things that happen in the league and perceptions. The Knicks are back to relevance and in an excellent position if they can land the right star. Stop with the fukking conspiracy theories and overall miserable air. You nikkas are so basic and fall for every ESPN cliche and “executive says” news story.

 

[ISO]

Cam Reddish is a bum.

Austin Rivers is likely done in the league.

Kemba Walker is likely done in the league.

Obi Toppin is nothing but an energy big who was never going to play over Julius.

Fournier isn’t good enough defensively to justify playing over Grimes/Quickley wasn’t hitting shots and was never going to get the opportunity as a tertiary ball handler here with Brunson/Randle/Barrett. The team was much better off without him.

Rose at this point doesn’t have the durability and can’t compete on the defensive end.

Y’all are fukking retarded and hilariously overrate these players. Of course they’re frustrated and salty they aren’t fukking playing. This is regular look around the fukking league why do y’all think mothafukkas get traded and waived

 

[ISO]

Ya'll cool with the mvp of the league not wanting to come here because of the coach

Yall not gonna see how big of a problem he is until its too late. We cant keep living off CAA tampering

Who gives a fukk? Embiid is one of the biggest hoe ass nikkas in the league

Of course he doesn’t want to play under a coach that would actually challenge him

Embiid is never making the Finals with his current play style

 

[ISO]

Whether you feel it's excusable or not is one thing. Whether it impacts the way players around the league view the team as a destination is another. And anyway, my complaint wasn't that the moves didn't make sense. It's that they came late as hell. I said this front office is overly patient with assets which dries up their value. They hang on to these guys and wind up dumping them for nothing, or worse; they have to give up assets to get rid of 'em.

- Obi's value deteriorated the longer he was stuck behind Randle. So, if they had no plans to move Randle, they shoulda moved Obi sooner.

- They could have traded Rose last offseason or even at the deadline to try and get something back. Even a second rounder would be more than they wound up with.

- Quickley is extension eligible and Grimes is about to be, so they're about to be more expensive and less valuable as assets.

- Fournier's contract is only as valuable as what it returns. The last rumor was that they wanted to dump him for Cam Payne and a TPE.

- Instead of getting value back for Burks, they used his value to dump Nerlens Noel. That's because they extended Noel despite having Mitch. Burks was receiving inquiries at the trade deadline of that season which wound up in the tank. So they devalued both assets.

- Just to dump Kemba's expiring contract, they dealt the 13th pick in the draft. That pick was Jalen Duren.

From a "we're gonna lose this piece anyway, let's maximize its value" perspective, they've been awful. In the same respect in the, "let's not screw this up, like the same ole Knicks" side of things; it's going well. But that's why I say the next big move will end up defining their stint. They can't just wait for much longer.

1. Obi never had value like that. He had plenty of draft day knocks and weaknesses that teams weren’t exactly clamoring for. We were never getting a first round pick or anything really substantial back for Obi after his rookie season and really in general he was an older prospect.

2. Sure we could have got something for D-Rose but we don’t know what the market was for him I doubt anyone was going to give up draft picks for a mid-30’s D-Rose. He was serving the veteran role on this team. I don’t know why y’all assume the Knicks don’t do due diligence you never hear about. This man just signed a damn near minimum $ deal with Memphis.

3. Quickley and Grimes should be viewed as long term pieces not assets for trade.

Knicks FO has made mistakes like any other the team is still in an excellent position.

 

[ISO]

@RickyGQ glad you with me spitting these facts these dudes are homers hell bent on being miserable and buying into bullshyt media narratives and conspiracies

They’re also hypocrites he was French fukk all season now they on his dikk and this idea that we have to move him just because is ridiculous

I really can’t believe they dikksucking players that are mad because they aren’t playing shyt is typical all around the NBA

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[Derek Lee]

fukk Draymond.
No more French mothafukkers on this team

 

[Derek Lee]

At least Fournier looked like prime Ray Allen against the Celtics