Where does Lebron rank all-time now?

[HacksawJimThuggin]

prime kobe is better than any version of lebron we've seen if you just analyze their games

I disagree wholeheartedly... prime Kobe was a more prolific scorer (which is overstated, because Kobe has always taken far more shots and is less efficient)



Bron affects the game in more ways, his playmaking skills and versatility on both ends of the floor gives him the decisive edge IMO

 

[Malta]

(real question)

what exactly did Bron do this year that Kobe didn't before? intangibles? stats? willing himself to a ring?

Nevermind all that other stuff like defending all 5 positions.

 

[HacksawJimThuggin]

also, what if Bron keeps improving on his post game this summer and tweaks his form to where his midrange game is more consistent? then what? no one can say for sure that we've seen the best of Bron just yet... that's a scary thought

 

[Gravity]

Michael Jordan was never the clearcut best player until the league was devoid of talent. This is fact, not opinion.

I'll stop you right here because if you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion then there's no need for me to take what you have to say seriously.

 

[Peruvian Connect]

Because he had already taken part in beating those teams, which is exactly my point. Who would say they wish they could have played against a team they already beat? Are you just trolling?

It doesn't matter if he already beat those teams. You always want to play the best. On paper Miami is the best just as Boston were the best and they split. None of the teams Jordan beat in the finals were close to greatness.

 

[Bilz]

Michael Jordan was never the clearcut best player until the league was devoid of talent. This is fact, not opinion. Magic and Bird had better teams thats true, but they were also seen as the apex of players Jordan was in that discussion but it was said he could not be the best until he won. Yes, he beat Magic and Magic soon retired and Bird had injuries. This is not a knock on Jordan. But once Magic and Bird left who was the real competition? The guys you name were not in thgat discussion eventhough they were in the league already.

This is the problem with using ring talk. Since Jordan and the Bulls had a monopoly on the rings during their reign, ring talk subscribers fail to recognize any other players or teams as being very good since you only define them by how many championships they win.

If the Bulls had slipped up a few times and allowed the Pacers, Suns, or Jazz to win a title or two, you'd hold Jordan in a higher regard since he was going up against other champions like Malone, Stockton, Reggie, Barkley, etc. With that skewed logic, he would have had to be WORSE in order to be better.

 

[Peruvian Connect]

I'll stop you right here because if you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion then there's no need for me to take what you have to say seriously.

Saying Jordan was not the clearcut best player is factual. Saying Jordan was is an opinion.

 

[Malta]

Michael Jordan was never the clearcut best player until the league was devoid of talent. This is fact, not opinion. Magic and Bird had better teams thats true, but they were also seen as the apex of players Jordan was in that discussion but it was said he could not be the best until he won. .

He won MVP and defensive player of the year @ the same damn time in 87-88, he was clearly the best player in the league.

 

[Gravity]

Saying Jordan was not the clearcut best player is factual. Saying Jordan was is an opinion.

They're both opinions my man.

 

[Peruvian Connect]

This is the problem with using ring talk. Since Jordan and the Bulls had a monopoly on the rings during their reign, ring talk subscribers fail to recognize any other players or teams as being very good since you only define them by how many championships they win.

If the Bulls had slipped up a few times and allowed the Pacers, Suns, or Jazz to win a title or two, you'd hold Jordan in a higher regard since he was going up against other champions like Malone, Stockton, Reggie, Barkley, etc. With that skewed logic, he would have had to be WORSE in order to be better.

I don't use ring talk. It's a team sport. My opinion on Jordan would remain the same. Others use ring talk to say that Jordan is the GOAT. I just said Jordan didn't have any real rivals in the 90's or any other truly great perimeter players.

 

[holidayinn21]

They're both opinions my man.

so...............did sefalosha slow down lebron, since he doesn't have to worry about offense?

 

[YBE]

Nevermind all that other stuff like defending all 5 positions.

You're caught up in the moment. Kobe did it before.


.500 .259 .739 9.7 5.6 1.9 30.3 (Bron - 2012 Playoffs)
.472 .188 .826 10.2 7.4 1.6 28.6 (Bron - 2012 Finals)

.479 .302 .809 5.7 5.6 1.7 30.1 (Kobe - 2008 Playoffs)
.405 .321 .796 4.7 5.0 2.7 25.7 (Kobe - 2008 Finals)

.457 .349 .883 5.3 5.5 1.7 30.2 (Kobe - 2009 Playoffs)
.430 .360 .841 5.6 7.4 1.4 32.4 (Kobe - 2009 Finals)

.458 .374 .842 6.0 5.5 1.3 29.2 (Kobe - 2010 Playoffs)
.405 .319 .883 8.0 3.9 2.1 28.6 (Kobe - 2010 Finals)

 

[Bilz]

It doesn't matter if he already beat those teams. You always want to play the best. On paper Miami is the best just as Boston were the best and they split. None of the teams Jordan beat in the finals were close to greatness.[/b]

You're off topic with this. Jordan's quote about wanting to see the LA and Boston teams in their primes was about wanting to have beaten them in their primes. Idiots like you can say that he only beat them because they got old and fell off and ignore the fact that they simply peaked at different times. Jordan did not say that the teams he did play were weak. He just had unfinished business against those teams that beat him when they had a full squad and he didn't.

As far as the teams Jordan facing in the finals not being close to greatness, yes they were, they just ultimately weren't able to get past Jordan and the Bulls to get there. Like I said in the previous post, you need to see a team win before you can recognize their abilities. Some of us understand basketball well enough to see that other teams were good enough to win but just always went up against better team(s).

 

[Peruvian Connect]

They're both opinions my man.

One's a fact, one's an opinion. Factually is Jordan was not the clearcut. Clearcut means absolute, there's no absulute in something as subjective as who's the best player at any given point.

 

[HacksawJimThuggin]

You're caught up in the moment. Kobe did it before.


.500 .259 .739 9.7 5.6 1.9 30.3 (Bron - 2012 Playoffs)
.472 .188 .826 10.2 7.4 1.6 28.6 (Bron - 2012 Finals)

.479 .302 .809 5.7 5.6 1.7 30.1 (Kobe - 2008 Playoffs)
.405 .321 .796 4.7 5.0 2.7 25.7 (Kobe - 2008 Finals)

.457 .349 .883 5.3 5.5 1.7 30.2 (Kobe - 2009 Playoffs)
.430 .360 .841 5.6 7.4 1.4 32.4 (Kobe - 2009 Finals)

.458 .374 .842 6.0 5.5 1.3 29.2 (Kobe - 2010 Playoffs)
.405 .319 .883 8.0 3.9 2.1 28.6 (Kobe - 2010 Finals)

so we're just gonna pretend like Bron defending 5 positions at times during this playoff run and abusing the clear cut 2nd best player in the league means nothing? Lebron's 2012 playoff run is >>>>>>>> anything Kobe's ever done in the post season, ESPECIALLY on the defensive end