When the People Cheer: How Hip-Hop Failed Black America By Questlove

[feelosofer]

I think many of the "heads" from my generation are upset with the way that hip-hop turned out. When I was listening to hip-hop in 1997, I would have never thought that Rodney O and Joe Cooley's "Everlasting Bass" and Three Six Mafia's Sound in general would become the dominant form of music in 2014. I was quite sure that the Underground Sound ( Rawkus Records, Jedi mind Tricks, East Coast/ California Underground) would take over like many underground movements had in the past (Punk for example). But, Alas, I was wrong, and most people in that scene were wrong.

Now that Trap EDM has now become hugely popular and replacing Dubstep. DJ paul and Juicy J (and Rodney O and Joe Cooley) have really become the Most influential Hip-hop producers of all time. And why shouldn't they? They had a very unique and consistent sound, and that sound didn't exist before them. Boom-bap Hip-hop had its roots in late 80's NYC hip-hop. It was an evolution of NYC 80's hip-hop, and a rehash of early 70's Fusion funk and soul music.

In contrast, while there are certainly influences that led the Memphis Sound, there was nothing like it that predated it. The Memphis Sound was and still is a fresh sound. It's not the Sound of Hip-hop to the Gen-X and those over 30 Years old. The sound of Hip-hop to us (those 30 y/o +) sounds like the music of our parents. Hip-hop from the 90's sounds like music for the early seventies, and that gives people the false impression of cycles. However, I don't think people realize that funk and soul music in the 70's was largely heard only in the Black Community. It wasn't a mainstream sound back then, so when White people heard 90's hip-hop. They had never heard anything like Roy Ayers style soul music before, and to them, it was a fresh sound. The Memphis Sound doesn't sound like anything before 1997.

The Memphis scene was largely regarded as dumb and anti-intellectual music by the dominant East Coast and West Coast Hip-Hop elitists. I think this was the clue to its future dominance that most people missed. Music is supposed to be about having fun. The Memphis Scene gave rise to Mosh-pits and a fresh new injection of energy and rhythm. Conversely, the underground Hip-Hop scene was constricted by strict technicality and College Kids who analyzed every lyric. In a way, it was an appeal to our parents. We wanted our music to be respected as something on par with their Bop-Jazz music, their 60's rock music, or their 70's soul music. However, music that takes over disregards the past. Jazz sounded nothing like anything that predated it, and it was largely regarded as crap by the then older generation. Trap, Drill, Trap EMD and even Dubstep came from a form of music that most of the Elitists of the past hated-- Memphis Crunk music. It was regarded as crap, ghetto, and a blemish on the black community. But you know what, it's really not crap. Three Six Mafia's Production techniques were actually much more complex that anything in the 90s. Today's basement Trap and Drill producers have a much higher standard of quality than the Sample based producers of the 90s. From a production standpoint, the music far more complex and technical than it was in the 90's.

I while I do agree that the Memphis Sound has become more popular and influential than many had expected I think you are are severely short sighting the production of the 90's. Prior to digital audio, making productions on MPC 2000's and SP2000s and 808s was a lot more difficult and took more time as you had very specific limitations on those machines and you ability to sample and extrapolate was key and arranging them properly, essentially doing more with less. Furthermore to 3-6 Mafia production was no more complicated than any other production in the 90's what made them stand out were two things, heavy piano use when it wasn't fashionable to that in Southern music really, and essentially being at the right place at the right time musically in the mid 2000's, though even saying that they are not the most influential producers of all time not even close but that's another thread.

Now as per Questlove's Essay, I have to disagree with his overall assertions. We all knew even back in the 80's that hip-hop was moving in a certain direction. Hip-hop really rose in popularity faster than any other music genre outside rock and roll and has maintained it's dominance for the past decade. He is asserting that hip-hop will never circle back to the Golden Era but I even disagree on that front, in comparison to a decade ago, the subject matter is more varied than it has been and while you have the same familiar names at the top billing (Jay-Z, Kanye, Drake, etc.) in the middle levels you have a little of everything. Hip-hop is not really the cause of anything or everything but stands more as a reflection of the times. I think the larger issue at hand is our inability to break the trends that were prevalent even in the Golden era, as it pertains to the pursuit of education and the maintenance of the family structure.

 

[Nigerianwonder]

Quest love is a little late to the party.. its over. Its been over. Hip hop is over.. "black culture" is over. We are who they say we are... we dont control any media or representation of blacks on a mainstream level. They said black youth are criminals and roving packs of savages playing knock out games and that was that... their was no factual counter or rebuttal outside a few insignificant blogs.

They will play futures "young nikka move that dope" 100 times a day on the radio and BET and claim it whats black people want to hear... even if he doesnt sells records and flops... it doesnt matter whether that statement is true. They can say and play what they want. We dont control any radio or BET. The Program directors are white and jewish too. we are who they say we are.. and the black youth aspires to be that. We internalize it cause thats all we see and hear around us when we should reject it. We allow it to exist because we allow them to tell us who we are... whites dont consider trailer trash a part of white culture.. but lil boosie is the definition of a real "nikka". You will never hear a record encouraging young jews to move that dope played on radio, tv, or any mainstream media.

 

[DEAD7]

Its possible that Hip-Hop's potential to do harm greatly outweighs its potential to do good.

Anywho, parents need to step up, and society needs to began emphasizing the nuclear family again not this progressive anything goes nonsense...

 

[theworldismine13]

Quest love is a little late to the party.. its over. Its been over. Hip hop is over.. "black culture" is over. We are who they say we are... we dont control any media or representation of blacks on a mainstream level. They said black youth are criminals and roving packs of savages playing knock out games and that was that... their was no factual counter or rebuttal outside a few insignificant blogs.

They will play futures "young nikka move that dope" 100 times a day on the radio and BET and claim it whats black people want to hear... even if he doesnt sells records and flops... it doesnt matter whether that statement is true. They can say and play what they want. We dont control any radio or BET. The Program directors are white and jewish too. we are who they say we are.. and the black youth aspires to be that. We internalize it cause thats all we see and hear around us when we should reject it. We allow it to exist because we allow them to tell us who we are... whites dont consider trailer trash a part of white culture.. but lil boosie is the definition of a real "nikka". You will never hear a record encouraging young jews to move that dope played on radio, tv, or any mainstream media.

in other words delores tucker was right

 

[The Real]

There is nothing special or peculiar about black people in terms of human history and especially in modern western society the prosperity of a group is linked directly to levels of education and IMO education is determined by your culture's or communities attitude toward education

So basically IMO the attitude toward education is one of the main determining factors more than racism so anything that stops or slows down Black culture from becoming more positive and more academic is detrimental to black people

You don't think it's a big deal because you are from the political school of thought that thinks changes comes through government programs and government initiative, so you want black people to demand government programs as opposed to black people simply fixing it ourselves on our own initiative, that is why you balk in horror over urban prep

How can I take this straw man seriously?

Anyway, Tucker famously said "thousands of young people... are dying spiritually and physically due to the violence perpetuated in these recordings." That means that you're wrong- she does blame the music for crime, and as I already showed, that is a misguided view. Her Christian moralism is well-intentioned, but ultimately useless.

Do you think top students at HBCUs aren't listening to the same hip-hop that dropouts in the hood are? Do you think Obama didn't praise Jay-Z's American Gangster album in interviews? Clearly hip-hop music, no matter how ignorant, is not a determining factor here. Smarten up.

 

[Kritic]

Quest love is a little late to the party.. its over. Its been over. Hip hop is over.. "black culture" is over. We are who they say we are... we dont control any media or representation of blacks on a mainstream level. They said black youth are criminals and roving packs of savages playing knock out games and that was that... their was no factual counter or rebuttal outside a few insignificant blogs.

They will play futures "young nikka move that dope" 100 times a day on the radio and BET and claim it whats black people want to hear... even if he doesnt sells records and flops... it doesnt matter whether that statement is true. They can say and play what they want. We dont control any radio or BET. The Program directors are white and jewish too. we are who they say we are.. and the black youth aspires to be that. We internalize it cause thats all we see and hear around us when we should reject it. We allow it to exist because we allow them to tell us who we are... whites dont consider trailer trash a part of white culture.. but lil boosie is the definition of a real "nikka". You will never hear a record encouraging young jews to move that dope played on radio, tv, or any mainstream media.

the jewish hiphop kids have the best deals in hiphop. mackelmore, mac miller, drake. created a path for them for nomination in awards they own.
while the blacks ones of the same era have the worst. kendrick, chief keef.
even if you support the black artists you're just supporting failure.

 

[DEAD7]

Do you think top students at HBCUs aren't listening to the same hip-hop that dropouts in the hood are? Do you think Obama didn't praise Jay-Z's American Gangster album in interviews? Clearly hip-hop music, no matter how ignorant, is not a determining factor here. Smarten up.

You are using strong willed individuals to discount the influence rap has on the weak minded and "hopeless".

I think whether or not Hip-Hop is influential(within the AA community) is a no brainer, and that the question really is to what degree...

 

[The Real]

You are using strong willed individuals to discount the influence rap has on the weak minded and "hopeless".

I think whether or not Hip-Hop is influential(within the AA community) is a no brainer, and that the question really is to what degree...

Yes, I am suggesting that degree is not significant, hence my historical argument from earlier in the thread.

 

[Walt]

Questlove writing pseudo-intellectual think pieces is a depressing example of how the academy, the black upper-middle class, the media, and hip hop failed black America. If he was 1/3 as smart as his posturing indicates he thinks he is, he might have something worthwhile to say. Dude has evolved into one of the lamest fukks in hip hop.

 

[theworldismine13]

How can I take this straw man seriously?

Anyway, Tucker famously said "thousands of young people... are dying spiritually and physically due to the violence perpetuated in these recordings." That means that you're wrong- she does blame the music for crime, and as I already showed, that is a misguided view. Her Christian moralism is well-intentioned, but ultimately useless.

Do you think top students at HBCUs aren't listening to the same hip-hop that dropouts in the hood are? Do you think Obama didn't praise Jay-Z's American Gangster album in interviews? Clearly hip-hop music, no matter how ignorant, is not a determining factor here. Smarten up.

I think she was blaming the culture for crime and music is part of the culture

Listening to music doesn't cause crime the culture of crime already existed, the problems already existed, the issue is why are we promoting music that promotes criminality why is Obama promoting American gangsta, why is jay-z putting out an albumn called American gangsta, these are fundemantal questions we need to ask, we need to ask questions about where are culture is headed

The issue isn't whether rap music causes crime, the issue is whether we are creating a positive , uplifting culture, creating a positive, academically oriented culture is key to creating a prosperous community

Even if rap music didn't cause crime the question needs to be asked if rap music is portraying and promoting a positive image of and for African Americans, if it's not it needs to

 

[Bolzmark]

You are using strong willed individuals to discount the influence rap has on the weak minded and "hopeless".

I think whether or not Hip-Hop is influential(within the AA community) is a no brainer, and that the question really is to what degree...

The problem here is, if rappers are having a stronger influence on your child than you are, then you're parenting skills suck. PARTICULARLY today, since the parents of todays youth grew up in the hip hop generation and know the pros and cons of it, where the parents of the older cats had no idea what hip hop was. Blaming hip hop for the ills of our community is a weak cop out. There are negative influences all around. Teaching your children the negative from the positive is a part of being a parent, but sadly too many in our community are just not up to par.

 

[theworldismine13]

the jewish hiphop kids have the best deals in hiphop. mackelmore, mac miller, drake. created a path for them for nomination in awards they own.
while the blacks ones of the same era have the worst. kendrick, chief keef.
even if you support the black artists you're just supporting failure.

That isn't even relavent, the question is are black artists making positive music that uplifts African American culture?

They aren't

Even supposedly positive artist like Kendrick you have to go through a ton of profanity to get to the so called positive things

 

[theworldismine13]

Meanwhile

 

[Kritic]

That isn't even relavent, the question is are black artists making positive music that uplifts African American culture?

They aren't

Even supposedly positive artist like Kendrick you have to go through a ton of profanity to get to the so called positive things

it is relevant because the corporations purposely ignore positive black artists for the ignorance to the point where artists with degrees like 2chainz change their subject matter to ignorance.
when david banner gets tired of the negativity and gets back to the positive sh1t, he's ignored.

meanwhile white artists like eminem and wackelmore are uplifted making them look better than the black ones.

interscope has the resources to hunt for positive music but instead go to chief keef because that they can simultaneously make money off the ignorance, bury the black community deeper in the negativity and tie the artist to a bad deal. 3 hit combo.


tucker should have gone harder at the record labels and not snoop. because now snoop has been replaced by chief keef. and if we blame chief keef he'll be replaced by some other rapper.

as we blame these rappers the labels make their money. we get weaker, they get stronger.

 

[theworldismine13]

it is relevant because the corporations purposely ignore positive black artists for the ignorance to the point where artists with degrees like 2chainz change their subject matter to ignorance.
when david banner gets tired of the negativity and gets back to the positive sh1t, he's ignored.

meanwhile white artists like eminem and wackelmore are uplifted making them look better than the black ones.

interscope has the resources to hunt for positive music but instead go to chief keef because that they can simultaneously make money off the ignorance, bury the black community deeper in the negativity and tie the artist to a bad deal. 3 hit combo.


tucker should have gone harder at the record labels and not snoop. because now snoop has been replaced by chief keef. and if we blame chief keef he'll be replaced by some other rapper.

as we blame these rappers the labels make their money. we get weaker, they get stronger.

Oh that's a different issue, in the first post it seemed you were saying they get better reecord deals, promotion and money, which I think is irrelevant

But i totally agree that record labels ignore positivity, but when Delores tucker came around saying we need to stop record labels from putting out these negative images we and I'm including myself, ignored her

So for us to sit here complaining about lack of positivity after shytting on Delores tucker is hypocritical, so instead of being a hypocrite I'm gonna acknowledge that I made a mistake and I should have payed attention to Delores tucker