MooseMouthMthafuga
Veteran
I've been saying it for years.Stat stuffing overly glorified second option.Put him on the court with a truly skilled superstar like Durant & he looks handicapped in comparison.
When I watch Giannis play, I dont see a 2x MVP at age 25
- Thread starter goatmane
- Start date
fifth column
Superstar
Time for Giannis to level up this summer with a real jump shot and serviceable post moves.
His team is trash, when people put their mind to defending, which basically only happens in playoffs nowadays. They can shut him down cause they know nobody else will do shyt.
He plays in a simple non-sophisticated but efficient way that’s optimal for when people aren’t focusing on defense especially on him. He needs a sniper on his team
He plays in a simple non-sophisticated but efficient way that’s optimal for when people aren’t focusing on defense especially on him. He needs a sniper on his team
I don't think Giannis's MVP campaigns fit in the same category historically as Nash's, cause with Giannis you can at least look at his stats/record and understand why he won while Nash's numbers will always look crazy without context (and sometimes with context).
To me Giannis's MVPs are more like Harden's and Westbrook's. 2017-2020 is a 4-year string of guys who put up nice regular season #'s but who couldn't elevate their teams in the playoffs at all, and not just cause their teammates let them down but because they shrunk back to size on the big stage. It's sort of crazy that Bron/Kawhi/KD/Steph were the dominant players who mattered in the last five seasons and the ones who battled in the Finals/WCF every single year but they don't have a single MVP win during that time.
murksiderock
Superstar
I dont disagree, but especially given he isnt lambasted to the degree other superstars of his era are, I think time will be more critical of him (unless this trend reverses) on some, "guy completely folded in the playoffs every year while putting up historic regular seasons", type shyt...
He kinda has a 90s David Robinson thing going on, except I feel like Admiral was scrutinized more in real time for being a great player on historic regular seasons choking every postseason...
You missed a bunch of 2nd options who won titles - just in recent years Pau, Siakim, and KG in addition to Duncan, Dirk and AD means that a PF has been 1st/2nd option in 11 of the last 22 titles. Going back further you missed Elvin Hayes winning a title as the #1 option in '78 and Maurice Lucas being the top scorer (2nd-best player) in '77....I'm guessing there's more if I actually looked year-by-year.Now name another PF who won anything as a 1st option
only ones to even win as a 2nd option are AD, Sheed, and Kevin McHale
If you have the skillset to be an All-Star at the 3 or the 5 then you may be great but a "true" PF will always be objectively worse than any other position given the same talent level.
I think a "true" power forward has plenty of talent to be a 1st/2nd option on a title team. Duncan, Garnett, Malone, Barkley, those are great players. The position isn't as weak as you make it out to be. Low-key PF has more MVPs (Pettit - 2, Barkley, Malone - 2, Duncan - 2, Garnett, Dirk, and Giannis - 2) than any position other than center.
Hell no, TD always played like a classic power forward, it's just that he was versatile enough to play center too. I mean look at the guys he won titles alongside - old Robinson, Oberto, Mohammed, and Splitter were all clearly the center in the relationship.
I agree two-guard is a historically weak position. Kinda surprising too - I'm not exactly sure why more great shooter/scorers playing the 2 haven't brought their team titles.
Y'all forgot Jerry West in '72 and Gus Williams in '80 as well. Arguably JoJo White for some of those Celtics teams too, he was the leading scorer in multiple Finals and has a Finals MVP.
I think over all of league history centers and small forwards have been the strongest positions (centers have won by far the most MVPs but small forwards have the most Finals MVPs). But power forward and point guard ain't all that far behind. Shooting guard is the weakest position historically for sure though MJ/Kobe/Wade/Drexler elevated it for just a little while in that 1990s/2000s period.
Giannis is being failed by coaching
He should be operating at the high post or low block on most possessions. He has shown he can facilitate a little bit. He also needs to utilize a move or two to score efficiently from that area of the floor. I'd play him as the PF or small ball C.
Playing him at the top of the key in the postseason is just more insanity. It's failed over and over again.
He should be operating at the high post or low block on most possessions. He has shown he can facilitate a little bit. He also needs to utilize a move or two to score efficiently from that area of the floor. I'd play him as the PF or small ball C.
Playing him at the top of the key in the postseason is just more insanity. It's failed over and over again.
Yeah, Dirk won one too
Now name another PF who won anything as a 1st option
only ones to even win as a 2nd option are AD, Sheed, and Kevin McHale
If you have the skillset to be an All-Star at the 3 or the 5 then you may be great but a "true" PF will always be objectively worse than any other position given the same talent level.
To be fair, AD led the Lakers in scoring last season.
Yapdatfool
Superstar
Who do we have to take the ball up the floor that's not named Giannis? Khris only one that can kinda create his own offense, but not enough to warrant a double team. Plus no one moves off the ball much, they just wait for Giannis to do something... Works in the regular season, not so much in the playoffs.
Should have come to Toronto
SuburbanPimp
Giving game to lames since the 90s
Ehhh, Steve Nash kind of did it first...
miami
