Jmare007
pico pal q lee
Yeah, I don't see Punk's credibility being hurt if he wins via fukkery.The E'verse already sees him as an important guy, imo. And that wont change even if his current angle is about how "legit" his title reign is.
What if Ryback goes over?
- Thread starter MenacingMonk
- Start date
TrueEpic08
Dum Shiny
Keep on arguing against things I've never said. I'm going by what I've seen play out on the screen, not some ridiculous hatred of Cena I haven't ever mentioned.
And if you'd just settle down from the gimmick and think, you'd understand how asinine "He's beat Cena every time they've met since 2011, but to cement his legacy, he needs to beat Cena AGAIN" sounds. If one team had beaten the Bills 4 times in the Super Bowl, would anyone be clamoring for a 5th as something legacy changing?
And the problem with Lesnar losing was because it was his first match back and because it sent us right back to status quo with Cena's character. Here we have a guy with massive monster cred and a guy whose cred has been torn down for no good reason. Totally different situations.
I do hope you realize that if we go with your solution, you'll have fukked over the audience twice on 2 straight PPVs on a main event finish, which is a big no-no, Mr. Booker.
Punk beating Ryback in any fashion would put a stop to everything they have going with him. He's being booked as unstoppable... if he gets stopped (ESPECIALLY due to some extreme massive beatdown at the hands of CM Punk), then that's it. I'm not saying he becomes Brodus Clay, or that he'll never have a chance to do anything notable ever again... but right now is not the time for him to take a high-profile loss.
I don't know that WWE booked themselves into a corner, moreso than Cena got injured and isn't ready to get in the ring in two weeks, so they had to improvise. The only others over enough to main event a PPV right now is D. Bryan and Kane, and they already did that earlier this year, so Ryback was really the only or best option left. Who else could've replaced Cena up against Punk in a Hell In A Cell match for the title... Kofi?
But as has been said, Punk escapes and runs away, leading to a no-contest. That's the best idea there is. Any other one is a bad idea... Ryback wins title too soon or Punk beats Ryback and kills the guy's buildup. Neither sounds like the way to go.
Punk not winning isn't gonna make him look like a joke... he's been champ for a year, AND he's a heel who's recently been playing the role of someone who takes the easiest way out just to keep his title. It would make perfect sense that he'd run out on a match against someone who's destroyed everyone.
I'm really not keen on Punk running away, not just because it's Punk, but because it's Hell in a Cell, meant to keep people in and ensure decisive finishes. Add to the fact that we already HAD a fukk finish last month, and that suddenly becomes a non-optimal solution.
There are no real good solutions to this due to Cena's surgery, so I'm just trying to work the best solution, and the main priority needs to be keeping Punk looking good enough to have some cred to face Rock in January. He can't just get skin of teeth victories and fukk finishes for the sake of heat, because then no one's going to take him seriously against The Rock. This always has to be kept in mind when thinking about the next 3-4 months.
Flat out: Punk needs to start beating people at some point. Maybe this isn't the best time to start with the decisive, clean victories, but somebody's going to need to pin somebody at this PPV because of what happened at NoC. Ryback winning should be out of the question because he doesn't figure into long-term plans. If you want to keep Ryback the strongest he can possibly be, then do the Bad Blood Hell in a Cell finish over again, and that will retain Punk's heat as a coward heel as well. If you want to build Punk's cred, do my idea. But a non-finish should out of the question because then you're actually starting to fukk with audience expectations in a bad way, and Punk losing should be out of the question because they're not going to build to Rock/Punk for all these months only to not do it with the most obvious storyline possible.
This thread has changed my thinking on the situation and I'm always open to that.
Originally I thought it was a horrible idea to Ryback to lose with all this momentum, but considering the major shows to come (Rumble, Mania) and Punk's obvious major roles on both, I think he's got to go over here in a way that protects Ryback. The trick is finding the proper finish so that Ryback still looks like a killer; also, have him start killing again the next night on Raw against somebody else, and definitely have the announcers stressing how impressive he was in looking dominant at HIAC in his first-ever main event even though he lost. Punk could even give him props in a promo on Raw (in the midst of gloating, of course).
Non-finishes at PPVs suck. Punk needs to go over more than Ryback needs to go over because of those future major PPVs. Ryback can still be kept strong even in an impressive Punk victory. "The Streak" isn't the be-all and end-all. I'm convinced.
Originally I thought it was a horrible idea to Ryback to lose with all this momentum, but considering the major shows to come (Rumble, Mania) and Punk's obvious major roles on both, I think he's got to go over here in a way that protects Ryback. The trick is finding the proper finish so that Ryback still looks like a killer; also, have him start killing again the next night on Raw against somebody else, and definitely have the announcers stressing how impressive he was in looking dominant at HIAC in his first-ever main event even though he lost. Punk could even give him props in a promo on Raw (in the midst of gloating, of course).
Non-finishes at PPVs suck. Punk needs to go over more than Ryback needs to go over because of those future major PPVs. Ryback can still be kept strong even in an impressive Punk victory. "The Streak" isn't the be-all and end-all. I'm convinced.
If one team had beaten the Bills 4 times in the Super Bowl, would anyone be clamoring for a 5th as something legacy changing?
I do hope you realize that if we go with your solution, you'll have fukked over the audience twice on 2 straight PPVs on a main event finish, which is a big no-no, Mr. Booker.
This isn't football.
This is a fake, predetermined sport. fukk outta here.The audience doesn't want to see Ryback pinned. That would be screwing them over. They would accept a wily guy like Punk to escape with a victory by the skin of his teeth and it would leave them salivating for the retribution.
And Punk will never look credible against the Rock. Don't sacrifice someone's momentum to try to salvage something that was never there in the first place.
No amount of sugar coating could walk back a Ryback loss. He was pinned. He couldn't win the one that counted. Him going on a rampage afterwards wouldn't be any different than Big Show getting mad and punching people out. You have something special here and you want to piss it away to save credibility that Punk will never reach as it pertains to guys like the Rock.
They will probably go the Bret-Austin WM 13 finish where Ryback passes out to the Anaconda Vice after being busted open.
Pammy91
Pro
The smarks will rage 
and I will enjoy every minute of their meltdown 
and I will enjoy every minute of their meltdown
Jmare007
pico pal q lee
There's still a long ass time till the Rumble. At this point, Punk only needs 4-6 weeks of clean wins + promo time to look like a threat to the Rock.
The fact that he is a chickenshyt heel right now, and that he's winning by technicalities doesn't erase the perception of his dominant run as champion. Even if the angle is about the "credibility" of his reign, I think the E'verse has seen enough from the guy to still consider him as legit. His run as a heel wont erase all that time as the dominant face.
If anything it's more of a "Punk used to be awesome, now he's just cries and cheats. I hope Cena/Ryback/Rock beats the shyt out of him" thing for the regular fan.
When it's time to build him for Rocky, he wont need extreme makeover to be seen as a threat (and we all know he's losing anyway, regardless of how he's booked
) like the Miz at WM 27 vs Cena.Those "Big Show getting mad and punching people" situations are a joke because he's done it about 900 times over the years. Big Show lacks intensity, he is what he is and everybody knows it. He hasn't been thought of as a killer in forever. Ryback is fresh enough as an intense killer that one loss won't stop his momentum, particularly a loss to an established star. WWE's marketing machine can sugarcoat the hell out of these things to where Ryback suffers very little damage. He could even be kept a part of the main event storyline, not as an immediate opponent but as an always-present and menacing threat to Punk. Even have The Rock mention his name a time or two.
A loss is a loss for Ryback. You all constantly bytch about the WWE not creating new stars, then, when they do you want them to throw it in the bushes so one of your favorites can get a win. Punk will lose ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, by escaping the cell by hook or by crook. It will show that he covets the belt and will keep it at all costs. Ryback dominating early with a small CM Punk come back that leads to another Ryback offensive with Paul Heyman interfering and dragging Punk out of there would be perfect. Heat on Punk, momentum in tact for Ryback.
And people do swallow that Big Show crap. People always respond to him being built as a monster.....AGAIN. Just like they did Henry. But Ryback shouldn't have to be rebuilt. He shouldn't be taking a loss for a looooooooooong time.
ThatKidBlackHippy
thekid
Liggins, if Ryback wins the title, what then? Do you insert him into the Rock/Cena/Punk picture?
Cuz a lot of people are suggesting that he wins and drops it back to Punk the next ppv, which makes the whole thing seem kinda pointless.
Cuz a lot of people are suggesting that he wins and drops it back to Punk the next ppv, which makes the whole thing seem kinda pointless.
TrueEpic08
Dum Shiny
There's still a long ass time till the Rumble. At this point, Punk only needs 4-6 weeks of clean wins + promo time to look like a threat to the Rock.
The fact that he is a chickenshyt heel right now, and that he's winning by technicalities doesn't erase the perception of his dominant run as champion. Even if the angle is about the "credibility" of his reign, I think the E'verse has seen enough from the guy to still consider him as legit. His run as a heel wont erase all that time as the dominant face.
If anything it's more of a "Punk used to be awesome, now he's just cries and cheats. I hope Cena/Ryback/Rock beats the shyt out of him" thing for the regular fan.
When it's time to build him for Rocky, he wont need extreme makeover to be seen as a threat (and we all know he's losing anyway, regardless of how he's booked
You say that, but it feels to me like WWE's trying their absolute hardest to erase that perception of Punk the dominant face in any way, shape and form and completely disconnect it from Punk the whining beggar. If it didn't feel like they were essentially shytting on that first 9 months so much through all the promos by Foley and Ross, I'd be less adamant about this.
You also can't have a coward just up and start winning to give him credibility. It becomes inconsistent with their character and, thus, a bit hard to believe. There's a thin difference between "he can win, but he cheats" and "he can't win, so he cheats" that WWE is so, so often on the wrong side of when constructing their template heel characters, and they're treading dangerously close to the latter with Punk at this point. They will be in that area if Punk just loses, and it's much harder to build back credibility for a main eventer without dropping him a level and rebuilding him.
In order to be on the side of the former, Punk needs to win semi-consistently over a protracted period of time, especially when it counts, so when somebody calls him out on it, he can have a record of proving people wrong (remember, people HATE, HATE, HATE when the heel proves them wrong). Punk hasn't been doing that since August, and really, he's been getting shyt on, embarrassed, chipped at and generally made to look like a blowhard. If there's any time for wins by a chickenshyt, it's right now against Ryback (well, he needs to pin him rather than defeat him, because of Ryback's credibility) and next month against Cena (You know they're doing that at Survivor Series, and because of all of the ridiculous rhetoric, Punk really needs to just win to draw a line under all of this so Punk can look toward Royal Rumble, and Cena can build himself back up for WrestleMania).
When did I say I wanted him to win the title? I just don't want him pinned.
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When did I say I wanted him to win the title? I just don't want him pinned.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
At some point ryback has to lose , you realize that right??
Losing to punk ( wwe champion)after putting up a good fight is as good as a lose you can get . Punk hits him with the title or some shenanigans now if he submits ryback idk but pinning him could be spun I mean punks beat cena bout 10 times in 2 years
CJ
Your objective semi-troll
I actually have no clue how they will finish this match. I do expect lots of fukkery including both a Brock and Cena appearance.
I agree with Liggins that any finish excluding Ryback being pinned should be fine. I kind of shudder at the thought of a Ryback/Rock title match at RR but a rub from Dwayne wouldn't hurt either (I assume Punk would fukk one of them over anyway.)
Think you all should just switch to Mark mode for this,
some 
and enjoy.
I agree with Liggins that any finish excluding Ryback being pinned should be fine. I kind of shudder at the thought of a Ryback/Rock title match at RR but a rub from Dwayne wouldn't hurt either (I assume Punk would fukk one of them over anyway.)
Think you all should just switch to Mark mode for this,
some and enjoy.